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‘If you don’t leave, we’ll kill you’: Hundreds flee Israeli settler violence (www.972mag.com)

submitted 2 years ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Politically motivated violence to exterminate an ethno-religious group sounds like terrorism to me. I think the difference you see vs most terrorist orgs is that Israel have the means to follow through on their genocidal intent.

The UN General Assembly's definition of terrorism from a condensation of it:

Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes.

The US legal definition:

premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents

I think it meets the UN definition, but misses the US definition because it's a national power that's committing it.

Edit: The national power requirement would ironically mean the Holocaust wasn't a genocide, so I think it's better for everyone that we don't rely on the US government's definition that seems to throw the baby out with the genocidal bathwater in an effort to show that it's impossible for them (or a certain strategic ally in the Middle East) to meet the definition of a genocide.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Politically motivated violence to exterminate an ethno-religious group sounds like terrorism to me

That's not happening.

I'm sure you have lots of opinions on this, but I'm not talking about how I feel. I'm talking about how the world actually works.

If you aren't going to discuss reality there's not much point in us continuing.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I took the definition and pointed out how it's applicable to the situation - what have I missed about how the world actually works? So far, it looks a lot like your feelings to me.

Palestinian casualties in the "conflict" are pretty squarely in-line with the broader Palestinian population, making it pretty indisputable the IDF is indiscriminately killing Palestinians, not targeting Hamas.
The Netanyahu administration has been spouting all sorts of genocidal rhetoric.
The Netanyahu administration actively propped up Hamas over moderate orgs. Seems like someone needed a pretext for the thing they've been trying to do for decades.
The Netanyahu administration has indiscriminately halted the movement of Palestinians, and cut water, power, food, trade and aid. Some of these have been restored thanks to international pressure - open war crimes and whatnot.
The UN has characterised the Netanyahu administration'so management of Palestine as an open air concentration camp.
The IDF has killed tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians - a major share of those deaths were children.
The IDF lies relentlessly - tunnels built under the Al-Shifa hospital by the Israeli government? No - that was Hamas... But Hamas beheaded all those babies - trust us, bro - we've got the evidence, but can't share it or have it verified. Then there's the Arabic calendar nonsense, the "hospital" curtain bullshit, the list goes on.

Do you have a counter more substantive than "feels", "we don't want to kill thousands of children - Hamas made us" or "criticising genocide is antisemitic"?

Edit: Formatting & clarity.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I really would have liked to see their answer but it appears they're unable to substantiate any of their argument. I'm not surprised, their criticisms seem to be entirely projection.

Great job laying out your case, by the way.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 years ago

Thanks! The formatting could use some work if nothing else, but I appreciate it.

To be fair, it's only hitting 8am in Israel now, so there's still the possibility of some substantiation yet - though deflection, performative offence, claiming a lack of evidence, and whattaboutisms seem more likely - let's see...