this post was submitted on 26 Apr 2024
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A Boring Dystopia
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So I have a question I sort of posted in there too but figure I’ll bring the conversation over here (in a more respectful way)
These are called spotters/marksman and they have them at football games, the Olympics, presumably political events, etc. to handle the threat of suicide bombers and other mass-population terrorist threats
How should we handle these threats without police intervention/snipers to quickly take out a bomber?
Looking for civil discourse if at all possible, but I also understand this is a high stakes discussion and directly affects some more than others
Edit: Asks a legitimate question, without ulterior motives, literally just trying to steer the conversation to a productive, constructive discussion: is bombarded with bad faith arguments, downvotes, accused of being down right disingenuous, and minimal attempts (1 as of this edit) to actually address the conversation. Psychotic experience this was.
Do these snipers ever actually intervene ?
Also, the solution is simple : outlaw guns.
I think people do not realize that for large gatherings where violence could break out this is pretty standard.
Most Sports stadiums have them.
I do not think it is wrong to be cautious, or at least have some pieces on the table in case something breaks out.
Which I am sorry to say, could very well happen.
1:5 Americans believe that an act of force is justified. RIght wing or left wing, that could be a terrifying concept if someone motivated by zealous anger to attack a protest they don't fully understand.
I think there might've been a miscommunication - I was referring to the threat being suicide bombers and dirty bombs. How do you stop someone from walking into a crowd, pushing a button, and hurting many innocent people trying to peacefully protest?
The cops are literally the ones walking into the crowds hurting the protestors. So you get rid of the cops.
I already asked this but I'm gonna repeat it here for clarity, are cops the only people hurting innocent people at protests?
Charlottesville, Virginia (2017): White supremacist drives car into counter protestors
Minneapolis, Minnesota (2020): Tanker truck drives through a crowd of George Floyd protestors.
Seattle, Washington (2020): Police brutality protest, driver drives through a crowd yet again.
New York City, New York (2017): IED sucide bomber inspired by ISIS in the subway.
Portland, Oregon (2020): Several incidents regarding vehicle usage and other violence against George Floyd protestors
Seems not. People are violent and there are threats to peaceful protesters. I am not saying that police snipers are the solution to this threat, and I am not saying cops are innocent, but to try and pretend that the *only *problem is cops, is disingenuous to the innocent people who have died due to hateful people and I'm not going to let you pretend otherwise, knowingly or otherwise.
Say their names.
Heather Heyer
David McAtee
Horace Lorenzo Anderson Jr
Summer Taylor
Secoriea Turner (8 fucking years old.)
Garrett Foster
Anthony Huber
Joseph Rosenbaum
What a cute list, here is one for the police during only a 6 month period over one large event to show the stark difference between the dangers of strangers and the dangers of police at protests (who I might add where present at all your examples, so what was the point?)
(in case you want to double check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_police_violence_incidents_during_George_Floyd_protests) Sorry this might take a bit:
In late 2022, Justin Stetson, one of the officers who beat Stallings was charged with third-degree assault.[110] On May 8, 2023, prosecutors offered Stetson a plea deal allowing him to plead guilty to a misdemeanor and avoid jail time, which Stallings objected to.[111] Nonetheless, a judge accepted the plea agreement. Stenson pleaded guilty to third-degree assault and one count of misconduct as a public officer, with the condition he never work as a police officer in Minnesota again.[112] Stenson had already taken a disability retirement in August 2022 and the plea did not affect his state pension.[111]
Earlier that same day, a group of protesters led by local organizer Frank Nitty II marched onto the I-794 bypass ramp, and were confronted by law enforcement officers, primarily from the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Department. The group was ordered to halt and dispersed with deployments of tear gas and rubber bullets; Nitty was singled out from the group, had a firearm pointed in his face, was physically assaulted and dogpiled by officers "leaving him bleeding from his right elbow, hand, and wrist, and left arm". Officers tightly bound his wrists, cutting off circulation to his hands, and he was arrested and held in jail. No charges were brought against Nitty other than a County citation for walking onto the freeway; he pled guilty, paid the citation, and was released, before suing the officers involved in the incident.[259]
A water bottle thrown at police near the District 1 station that afternoon was later pictured and described as a "molotov cocktail" on the Milwaukee Police Department's Twitter profile; this drew widespread rebukes and was ultimately quietly corrected by MPD leadership.[260]
URGH, that was a pain. But please if you find a list of police casualties during these protests/riots I would love to see them since I can not find them. Oh and if you want to say they stopped the riots, the buildings still burned while the police watched.
Alright, well, I'm gonna ignore the passive aggression, mostly because it doesn't contribute to the conversation and is only damaging to an attempt at civility.
My point, was that police aren't the only danger, and that plenty of others KILL innocent protestors. I didn't even include harming other protestors. Like I said in my other comments to you and to others, but you've clearly misunderstood that point based on the other comments you've made to me, so I'll reiterate here.
Super clearly:
"Police are undoubetdly part of, if not the majority of the problem. However, we face plenty of other threats from domestic and foreign terrorists in the state. I acknowledge that terrorism in the US has often been used as a scape goat (namely to invade the wrong fucking country - Afghanistan). However, I am identifying the issue of: How do we prevent these attacks and respond w/o the need for police. Which IS NOT implying that I think the police are the answer, but a call to constructive action to solve the problem w/o the need to OVER rely on the police as some kind of protector force. Which we BOTH agree, they are not."
Get it?
I don't know how many more times I can say that I believe the ACAB movement before it finally sets in for you. The police are not the only fucking problem we face. And to say otherwise is dangerous and misleading.
The point is the risk of heavy police presence at a protest is not worth the "protection" they do or don't offer.
Ban protests if you really want to as a nation but stop this "you totally can protest, it is your right! Oh watch out for the tear gas" crap.
OK, I will spell it out.
THE HEAVY POLICE PRESENCE AT PROTESTS ARE THE PROBLEM.
And if you just read the next several walls of text you can see that it is not even close.
God damn, owned.
Folks are being deliberately dense and not answering your question. I replied above, but I'll add that Sam Harris does tend to address this at length.
I can't say I'm a fan unfortunately. I didn't like the majority of his discourse on racial profiling, his fascination with Islam (despite more abrahamic religions being pretty violent and hateful, even if they try to correct w/ new testaments), and especially on his discourse regarding race and intelligence which is pretty classic nazi/skin head shit tbh
I mostly agree.
The police forces would never give up their guns, though.
They made an earnest effort to get rid of guns in Northern Ireland. How'd that go down?
I'm actually not aware of this, what did happen?
Sensible gun control policies did fuck all to end The Troubles