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Really? Cause most people I've seen defend it, even in this thread, have been about hormone blockers and whatnot
On a statistical basis, really.
Trans people are a small minority compared to fat teenage boys.
Obviously this is aimed against trans people, so there's a clear difference in how it's received and it clearly affects trans people more politically, but according to numbers most gender affirming surgeries are indeed on cis males.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11211955/
Puberty blockers are maybe considered gender affirming care legally, idk, but technically it's the opposite of affirming. You can't use puberty blockers forever afaik, but you can use them to delay your decision possible gender affirming care until you're ready to make the decision. And with that sort of use, they've proven to be quite safe and effective.
How on Earth did I call you fat by pointing out that cis-males with obesity issues are far more common than trans people?
Guess you've some confidence to work on buddy, as talking about you didn't even cross my mind. I pointed out a fact about gender-affirming care. Honestly, I assume that people are more or less closer to my age on Lemmy, so I genuinely didn't consider that you might be actually a minor looking to get themselves some gender affirming care.
Yeah, puberty blockers are probably considered gender affirming care, but them not being included is just me being pedantic about the name. I guess "care which affirms your position of not being sure about your gender identity yet until you're old enough to make one".
Do you even read what your typing? or do you just get off on being a dick?
Excuse me?
You're saying gender affirming care shouldn't exist for minors despite not knowing the facts then when the facts are pointed out, you start screaming about me calling you fat.
Get off your high horse.
How is you supporting right wing policies being less of a dick than me pointing out your support of right wing policies, which might be because you don't understand all the facts, not because you actually support the right, which is why I pointed out the facts which you took personal offense at?
Well you're the one who went off on a rant on something I didn't even bring. I was talking about hormone blockers and you went off onto surgeries. Then when I brought up how I also would have liked some gender affirming care when younger you said well there's less trans people than fat boys. I never brought up weight, it's another thing you brought up.
I just, you're attacking me for trying to express my opinion. I'm open for civil discussion but you've been on the offense. If you have any points for anything I actually brought up that would be cool
You mean after you got angry at me, you edited your earlier comment to justify getting angry at me for quoting stats, as if I had actually made a personal slight when you hadn't mentioned your age, gender, sex or health before my first reply.
"I was talking about hormone blockers"
You said "but actual gender affirming care should be left to when you can have a drink over it".
So that sentence would include gender affirming care for cis males (which you hadn't even identified as when I wrote those replies), and the gender affirming care they receive is getting moobs removed.
You wrote like 70% more text to your original comment. Making a wild strawman about how you should have been allowed to use as much testosterone as you wanted to, because you pretend that's what gender affirming care is. (The doctors don't arbitrarily give people bottles of HRT to use willy nilly.)
Puberty blockers are safe and reversible and we have lots of data to back that up.
I'm asking you whether you think teenage boys who may have issues with gynecomastia should be able to have them removed, or would it be somehow morally wrong? Should we make those boys go through their teenage years suffering from something they know they don't like, so that they can decide about it when they're "old enough to be sure"?
I have not attacked you once. I said "get off your high horse". I don't think that's too inflammatory, tbh.
I made those edits immediately after posting my argument. Before responding to you. Sorry. I thought you read the whole argument.
So then when I go to immediately read about how my previous body issues are invalid cause there's more fat boys then trans people kinda hurt.
The "argument" which wasn't there when I replied to it? And how... exactly? If you post a comment, and then start editing it, during the time you are editing it, people can click "reply" and start replying to the unedited comment. Which is why generally you should not go back and add paragraphs of stuff after you posted a comment.
You've edited it several times and no-one can know which edits you did when.
You pretended like I was calling you fat when I pointed out that most gender affirming care is for cis males with gynecomastia (which usually — but not necessarily always — correlates with obesity), despite me not having any idea of your sex or size.
I made those edits immediately. But even so at no point in my original argument did I talk about surgeries. You immediately went into moobs and fat boys.
Also, you didn't know my sex after saying when I was younger I wanted bigger muscles, a foot of height, and a massive dick? Then you really either have read anything of just dotn care to comprehend.
There was none of that in it when I replied to it, and now there are seventeen "edit edits" and the comment in itself is 600% longer.
/editedpart adding this image and this comment: Is your idea of "immediately" 20 minutes? I could write an entire book in twenty minutes.
edit 2 here's when i posted my comment. now compare the time of me having posted this to the time of you having edited your comment pls.
/endeditedpart
You took something personally and revealed something about yourself while doing that. It's just a coincidence if you are one of those people suffering from gynecomastia. But if you are, wouldn't you want to not have to suffer from it? Or if you're fine and don't have it too bad, surely you can imagine people having it worse to the point they might be bullied so severely as to consider self harm? So why wouldn't we give those kids the treatment for that problem, when we have the resources and technology to do it safely?
That was there neither. You went back to write it because you realised that you had gotten offended by me even trying to offend you, so you wrote in some bullshit after justification so it looks like it. I find that sort of behaviour pathetic.
Why haven't you replied to @[email protected] to his comment saying;
I hate to toot my own horn here, but I agree with him and have not even insulted you despite this behaviour of yours.
Non edit this time,
Why wouldn't I want to give other access to body modifications even if i myself had those problems. Cause what I really needed was better adults to talk to and more people to tell me everything is fine.
And I know I don't have nearly as many problems as teans kids. And it's in abd faith to compare myself. I was originally trying to point out that I don't agree with giving kids drugs to change thrier lives cause then at what point does it get out of control and it's just blown over.
Your comment still stands like that.
We're not talking about "body modifications". We are talking about gender affirming care. You may pretend it's "body modification" but like most people have said, all of your rhetoric relies on an asinine view of a kid being able to just go up to their liberal parents and say "I want a complete gender reassignment" and get it, when any trans person goes through tons of psychiatrists and evaluations. They're not given anything that we haven't found to be medically safe. Which is why your "body modifications" of some absurd dick size and bone lengthening at an age where you're still growing wouldn't be accepted by any medical professionals as "gender affirming care."
It's a childish strawman which you use to justify an extremely shitty slippery slope argument. Puberty blockers are safe and effective.
Based on your answers, I assume you must be fervently against circumcision, because that is a literal permanent physical change to one's genitals, and the kid doesn't even have a say in it, much less making the choice for themselves when "they're old enough to have a drink over it." So you oppose allowing circumcision unless it's medically necessary. You also oppose teenage males who get bullied for having tits getting care for that extremely simple problem. That's the only logical conclusion from your rhetoric.
Bro my whole arguemt. Since the fuckign beginning has been don't give kids drugs until we allow adults to have drugs. That includes puberty blockers
Which since talking to other people I leavened of CPP but that's literally health problems so it's deffrnrt.
But, your making up stuff and trying to mold the arguem t so your right.
Ans lastly cause you wanna add it in, yeah I am against circumcision. But keep changing the argument
So no healthcare for children, got it. No operations for fat boys with moobs, no circumcisions and since you phrase it that way, guess no medication for any other illnesses either, huh? And the reason for this asinine take is the view that you think that children can simply go to a doctors and command them to give them full gender reassignments.
Your ignorance has been the issue the whole time. You're afraid of a problem which doesn't exist and because of that you want to make life miserable for those you pretend you're looking out for. It's horrific, tbh.
"Making up stuff." Name one.
And now you're spamming typos on purpose to even further pretend like you never edited anything to add anything to your comment, despite there being "edit" and "edit edit" and several sentences with those. Who do you think you're lying to?
Making stuff up?
And I show you how I normally type cause I got big fingers and toye fast and I get in trouble. I go back to fix errors and get in trouble. There's no winnignwith you
No, it's not a lie. It's a very clear comical exaggeration for humouristic purposes, because there's SEVERAL "edit" labels you've added to the original, which everyone can see.
You added them 20 minutes later. I replied to you 10 minutes later.
You added several sentences. You didn't just "fix typos".
I also fixed typos after proofreading. Takes a whole of twenty seconds as you can see.
No. There are 3 edits inadded. Not seventeen. I added all my thoughts immediately. And came back to clarify and fix typos after cause I knew it was a controversial top comment. Especially since it was getting traction immediately.
Congrats on being better technically. Want and award?
#No, it’s not a lie. It’s a very clear comical exaggeration for humouristic purposes, because there’s SEVERAL “edit” labels you’ve added to the original, which everyone can see.
Hope you can see that better now than in the previous comment.
Not before I had already replied to you.
Idk what to tell you. Maybe you already had the threads loaded. Maybe my client needed an extra minute to update right there. I went back to my comment immediately after to add the edit and edit edit.
Do you want me to be more sketch next time and not even try to add that I edited my comment. Or maybe next tiem I'll add timestamps of when I edit every single word or sentence. But you're taking this way too far.
My original common, which minimally changed to clarify my messups, didn't have anything to do with surgery's, talked about my wanting a bigger dick, and stated people should be able tonexpress how they feel just no life altering drugs.
Even what I added after doesn't change what inworte. Even though I added them immediately
I do know what to tell you.
You wrote a comment, I read it, replied it to it, and whilst I was replying to it, you started editing it, then I posted my comment and then you posted your edit.
Nothing weird about it. And still, you don't say you suffered from moobs, do you? So how is me bringing that up me calling you fat just for pointing out that more cis males have gender affirming care than trans people, statistically? You were wrong to say I was calling you fat, because I wasn't. But you can't say "I was mistaken in thinking you called me fat."
"It didn't say anything about surgeries"
You might as well have been talking about pasta in general and then start crying when I bring up spaghetti, saying "I was talking about pasta, it has nothing to do with spaghetti!" One is a subcategory of the other. "Gender affirming care" includes within it gender affirming surgeries.
And how exactly would you go about getting a bigger dick without a surgery, pray tell?
Mod?
How far in life do you think you'll get if you can't swallow your pride enough to say "I'm sorry, I made a mistake" , online, to a stranger.
In any sort of business setting you're gonna have to do that a lot.
I never called you fat. You said I did. You were wrong. I'd like an apology.
You were talking about gender affirming care, part of which is gender affirming surgeries, which is why I informed you of the fact that most of those are for cis males. I prefaced it with "FYI". As in, I was informing you of a thing that's related, not cooking up personal insults.
And again, I don't know how you imagine one could get a bigger penis if not surgically? You haven't wasted your moneys on those advertisemts in emails promising "inches in weeks"? I don't think you should. They're not too trustworthy as companies, I've heard.
Yeah I'm the offensive one for calling you out for saying I'm trying to insult you and then asking for an apology because I showed I didn't, and now you're spamming "fucking fuck fuck fuck fucking fuck you you fucking fuck".
Okay I'll knock down my king and you can tell your friends you won this internet debate.
RIP little Timmy, he could have lived with chemo but [email protected] doesn't want children to take drugs.
Chemo alters life quite a bit, I mean it's pretty much poison.
I literally went back for Grammer cause I suck at typing.
And why am in not going aback to answer someone calling me out more, cause I'm arguing on like 4 fronts nown
So just ignore the timestamps and call me a liar despite knowing you edited the comment and that I answered with a lengthy comment less than 10 minutes after yours had been written, but you still insist I intentionally tried calling you fat?
You just can't admit you were mistaken and apologise?
So just ignore that my comment was there and has stayed consistent the whole time. That i.must apologize for going back and fixing errors i made cause inhale bigger fingers. I'm not even going back andcorrextingnanthtungnthis them cause this is how it normally looks befor I gor back.
You made the mistake by changing the argument and don't want to admit yoy pivoted, not me.
It hasn't. Lie all you want but you had nothing in there about your gender, sex, wants, needs, history, nothing. You simply commented on gender affirming care, then when I pointed out the hypocrisy, you edited it to be literally four times as long.
You're absolutely lying now, I did not edit it to kake it longer.
I literally talked about having a bigger dick as one fo my first things I wrote and added on even before posting.
Pure just lying to make yourself seem better
You literally just admitted to having edited the comment a few comments back. Can't even keep your lies straight.
I added the ‘edits’ immediately after I posted. Went back after starting to argue with you cause I realized I made some grammatical errors cause I went back to reread what I wrote.
You added them 20 minutes later. I replied to you 10 minutes before that.
edit and see I fixed my typos as well with an edit. Or rather I did (and you did more than that.). Took me 20 seconds. You claim it takes you 20 minutes to just fix typos and "not add anything"? Wow. That's some slow "immediate" action.
Yes, cause you were the only one I was talking to at the time and I didn't reread until coming back to it later.
I don't understand what's so hard to understand
You weren't talking to me at the time which I was posting to you. How does that make sense to you; that you're supposedly "talking to me" before I've posted my first reply to you? How? You can predict the future?
Just stop it man. You're twitching all over the place simply because you're ashamed of having said something stupid. Go off Lemmy and eat something or something. You're tilted.
You stop it. You're going crazy and writing a novel because you missed some arguments.
You must read horrible novels if two paragraphs of a few sentences is "a novel." Doesn't speak much to your literacy. Which sort of supports my point about you just being ashamed and not being able to say "whoopsie."
Yes, because our conversation is only one single comment you wrote. You definitely haven't been typing way more than me.
I also see you can dish out sarcasm, but you can't take it.
Am I to interpret this as you thinking you've "got to me"? Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's called "projection". Thanks for letting me know your feelings though.
Keep reaching
You literally don't comprehend stuff, do you? I admitted to going back and fixing my grammar and what not.
Damn your dense.
Oh that's "grammar", is it? I think you don't comprehend the words you use.
You should have seen the post before I went back ahha
So you're pretending those bullshit "arguments" you edited into your comment is "you going back to fix your grammar" and not you going back to add stuff?