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I have problems with people who abstained. The hard thing is, how do you change voter behavior?
this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2025
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Kamala supporters should look in the mirror and ask themselves why they're ok with their candidate enabling genocide
I don't think this is a fair analysis of any real person's position.
May not be their mentality, but that is the reality when you show more contempt for those mad about said genocide enabling than for the figure you're advocating for despite them enabling genocide
That's a real comfort to all the genocide victims
It certainly isn't. Victims of genocide are unaffected by any individual's mindset. I fully agree with your position; I'm simply advocating for an exploration of that mindset to inform better future choices.
She used the only power she had to try to negotiate a ceasefire. What you are saying simply isn't factual.
The only thing she wanted to change about bidens administration was to add more Republicans, the same administration that was regularly sending arms to Israel. Palestinians weren't allowed to speak at the dnc. She had plenty of opportunities to show support for the Palestinian people, every time she supported Israel instead.
She didn't add as many republicans as Trump did. Trump want to put American boots on the ground in Gaza for the US to take control. How many Palestinians did Trump allow to speak?
If those are your concerns, you chose poorly.
Nice deflecting from your rebutted "factually untrue"
To answer this new prompt, just because Trump supports genocide doesn't mean you needed to accept Kamala supporting genocide
I chose not to engage with your strawman. It was not a rebuttal. She tried to negotiate peace. That's a fact. Trump wants to remove all Palestinians from Gaza and take it for the US. That is a fact.
There was no strawman. What did I say that was untrue?
Also
“True peace is not merely the absence of tension: it is the presence of justice.” ― Martin Luther King Jr.
edit
I decided to go ahead and provide sourceshttps://www.cnn.com/politics/harris-2024-campaign-biden/index.html
https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-administration-planning-680-million-arms-sale-israel-source-2024-11-27/
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/dnc-palestine-uncommitted-speech-ruwa-romman-1235085916/
Can't really cite a source for this, I would actually need you to find an instance where she had an opportunity and didn't support Israel.
A strawman isn't untrue. It's just irrelevant to the argument.
You said she enabled genocide. In reality she worked for peace. That was all the power he had. So you were unequivocally wrong.
It seems you and I have different ideas of what enabling genocide looks like. Your opinion seems to be that her working for a ceasefire means she worked for peace. I find that argument weak partially because that was her just doing her job (unsuccessfully), and the ceasefire was only ever temporary and lacked justice (a prerequisite for peace). My opinion is that siding with the genociders counts as enabling genocide. She had the power to speak against Israel and show support for Palestine but did not use that power, she used her voice to say that Israel has the right to war. I also assume she had some power at the DNC and didn't use it to let a Palestinian speak. Everything I know about what her positions were, based on what she said, her input to the public discourse, puts her firmly on the side of Israel, the genociders.
You can disagree with my opinion, but I haven't made any statements that are "unequivocally wrong". The paragraph above is the first time I tried to represent anything but my own opinion, and I still don't think I did a strawman with it.
Her job is the only official power she had and she used it to stop the killing and get hostages released. That is directly trying to stop the genocide. Saying otherwise is counterfactual
So you don't think her voice had any power? If no, that brings into question why she was picked for the role at all. And it's not "counterfactual" to say that the deals she was making was for pausing the genocide as opposed to stopping.
Can you think of a time a VP came out and directly contradicted their President's foreign policy?
Yes, that is counterfactual. Stopping the war was always the ultimate goal. Pauses were just the compromise.
Is that a good thing? Is that acceptable even when it includes standing by genocide? But when she's running her own campaign seems an excellent time to distinguish herself from her predecessor. Especially when she got that spot because polling showed Biden couldn't win. Even more when she's specifically asked what she'd have done differently per my source from earlier.
The war will not stop as long as both exist. The past 75 years of conflict have shown that. The goal as stated was only ever going to end with pauses.
That's still compromising with and defending the genociders. This evergreen meme
Also this quote feels relevant
It just is. It's an unspoken restriction of her job. Nobody gets elevated to that position unless they unequivocally back their boss.
So you're in favor of genocide, but just mad at which side is losing.
To repeat a question, is that acceptable even when it includes standing by genocide?
I'm in favor of dismantling all theocratic colonialist states. I'm opposed all genocide of any people, especially when that is based on religion or bigotry. To be clear, the state is not the people it supposes to represent.
Except she was working for peace to end the genocide. You keep skipping over that reality as if it were meaningless.
How do you realistically propose to dismantle Israel in a way which wouldn't qualify as genocide?
I'm not skipping over the deals she was making. I'm just not relying on it as the singularly decisive factor in determining her contribution to the conflict. As well as highlighting the context in which it was done.
How did we dismantle the nazi state in a way that didn't qualify as genocide?
Working for peace is the exact opposite of contributing to the conflict.
Killing 4.4 to 5.3 million Nazis was part of that achievement. It was not achieved peacefully. Thankfully "Nazi" isn't an ethnicity, but Israeli Jews are and ethnic group.
I was actually trying to use a neutral phrase. Meaning that it would be possible to have a positive contribution to resolving the conflict. As I think I've made clear, I don't believe it was positive overall because of a few factors I've tried to lay out. Can you say that you aren't skipping over factors I've presented to come to your conclusion?
That was the war that got us to the place where we were able to make demands of the state and hold them accountable for their actions. At the moment, it doesn't seem like war is required to give the US that kind of sway over the state of Israel.
They are irrelevant. You don't try to stop something you support.
Do you expect that Netanyahu would step down from power if we asked?
They are inconvenient to your argument. This is you dismissing evidence in order to preserve a worldview. Practically the definition of being close minded.
She didn't try to stop it, that would require holding the aggressors accountable for their actions. If there's no accountability, why wouldn't they just pick up where they left off?
Yes. If the USA, the world's largest superpower and Israel's biggest benefactor and arms dealer, were to demand he step down, I don't think he would feel he had much choice. Maybe he'd try to start a war because of it, but it wouldn't last very long. Assuming we actually had intention behind the demand.
I thought maybe you were misinformed before, but now I know you are just lying. We just agreed she was working for peace. That is trying to stop it.
Then you are completely ignorant to the political situation in Israel. Holding power is the one thing stopping Netanyahu from going to prison. He won't step down under any circumstances.
No we did not. You agreed with yourself. I said there's no peace without justice and no stopping without accountability.
On both parts and others you're flat out ignoring major pieces of my argument. I have no desire to respond to someone who engages disingenuously like that.
Being called disingenuous by you is hilarious.
You seem like a really bad listener. I bet there's people no longer in your life because of it.
It was gazas best chance at actually existing. Also she was the only one with a chance at 270 electoral votes
Your turn. Why did you vote for someone who couldn't get to 270? Do you not realize you literally helped trump?
Voting is not supporting and my state went blue so no I didn't. Also that's not relevant to the conversation at hand. The point is that she was a shitty candidate that supported genocide and mostly ran on not being Trump. But when people correctly point that out, many such as yourself get more angry at that person instead of the shitty candidate. What it feels like is you're married to the dnc, and when someone accurately tells you that they're abusive and they're cheating on you, you shoot the messenger.
No one is inspired to vote for the lesser evil. Be mad at the dnc for running a campaign of "we're not going to help anyone but at least we're not Trump" instead of actually trying to be good. Working people are your allies, not the elite trying to divide us with stupid electoralism.
Nuance