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Phew. Good thing we didn't vote for Kamala.
/s
You do remember that this attack happened while Kamala was VP.
I would feel sick if the candidate I voted for was cheering Israel for massacring thousands of innocent people. May I remind you that the DNC barred the pro-Gaza crowd? May I remind you that Trump and Biden were competing on who is the closest Israeli ally?
Yep, having Trump as a president sucks, but at least my hands are not filled with blood.
Did you vote for Kamala? Or did you allow trump to get elected? Guess what, your hands are stained with innocent blood either way. Your hands fill up faster with trump.
I was not complicit in getting either of them elected. My hands are clean, and so is my conscience.
You're living with the delusion of clean hands and a clean conscious and you only had to sacrifice countless numbers of people to do it.
Isn't this like shouting at the cashier because the supplier raised the prices?
Fortunately I don't live under Democracy with American Characteristics (and may be I am missing something here) but I am pretty sure there is a huge machination behind the "sacrifice countless numbers of people to do it" that has nothing to with you or the person you comment to. Seems like you are on the same side.
If I had voted for Kamala I would't even have that delusion.
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice" Rush-Freewill
I know my quotes too.
“There is nothing I dread So much, as a Division of the Republick[sic] into two great Parties, each arranged under its Leader, and concerting Measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble Apprehension is to be dreaded as the greatest political Evil, under our Constitution.” John Adams
"The two-party system teaches you that there’s a constant battle of good versus evil, when in reality, it’s just a fight for power.” Ross Perot
“The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum.” Noam Chomsky
Want me to go on?
Indeed. But you must always remember that the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for God men to do nothing…
— Alucard, lol
this is an interesting stance. not a US citizen, but i live in a country where voting is mandatory. i assume you didnt vote?
There are not just two candidates in the US, although the establishment would prefer everyone to believe that.
right but FPTP kinda ensures third party is negligible until it becomes the 'second party' right?
edit: and also, i agree itd not youre fault, not trying to assess blame, just trying to understand the psyche of a (realistically) non-voter
Unfortunately.
You had a choice to make, either vote for one of them, assuming you're American and can vote, or be complicit with whomever was elected. You can trick yourself into believing you had no impact on the outcome, but assume what I said earlier was true, you either helped trump get elected, and therefore have blood on your hands, or you voted against trump, and have blood on your hands, but less blood.
The result would be the same no matter the candidate. Gaza was razed to the ground while the democrats were in power. And not only that, but they actively backed the Israeli government. If we allow ourselves to betray our moral principles, then we are on a downwards spiral where each candidate can say and do whatever they want, as long as the candidate next to them is a tiny bit worse.
Hence why I said you had blood on your hands no matter what. This is where harm mitigation comes in, by not voting, you agree to whoever is elected, in this case trump who wants to further ethnic cleansing. This was the last election in the US as we know it. And trump isn't a "tiny bit worse".
Who said anything about not voting? There were not just two candidates last time I checked.
I agree to whoever gets elected, because that is how democracy works. As far as I am concerned that might be the last election in the US. period. And the Democratic Party is partly to blame.
Not voting for the only viable candidate that wasn't an overt fascist is empowering fascists. The democrats aren't solely to blame those who allowed a fascist dictator to come into power share the blame
Not voting for candidate = voting for them.
Solid logic.
Telling people how they have to vote.
Also, solid logic.
Thank you, yes when it comes to a fascist dictator vs a non fascist, non dictator, voting for the non fascist non dictator is the only viable option, unless you're OK with a fascist dictator.
Pretty fucking clear.
"Not voting for the only viable candidate". So between two shit candidates, we should vote for the one who smells the least like shit. Nope. That's not how democracy works. Everyone should vote for the candidate that bests represents them. I didn't say that democrats are solely to blame. I said partly.
When it's fptp yes that's the litteral outcome. Everyone SHOULD vote for the best candidate that represents them, in FPTP that's not how it works. When only one of 2 parties could get elected in the US and one of them is a fascist dictator, and the other isn't that is how it must work. When fptp is removed, and you could get a real democracy then yes. Until then the only moral option is to mitigate harm
And that literally doesn't solve anything. It just postpones the inevitable. Democracy lost the moment DNC plotted against Bernie Sanders back in 2016. What would you think would happen if we had another 4 years of Democrats? Fascism would just come 4 years later.
It would give 4 years to work towards electing more progressive people at a municipal and state level. It literally give a chance to solve something instead of being accelerationist.
Yep, we saw how much the Biden presidency helped.
It genuinely did, for many Americans, trans rights, federal funding for science. Should it have been better? Yes. Because it wasn't perfect does that mean fascism should be allowed in? No.
All these are just a smokescreen. Inequality is the real issue, and the rich got richer, while the poor got poorer.
I am not saying that fascism should be allowed in. I am just saying that people who feel left out, and who feel that society has betrayed them, they will start searching for other alternatives to our current system. Who left them out?
The GOP historically. If you want equality you don't vote for the party that is shouting out "you are lesser than me, you are my slaves"
I totally agree that the GOP is shit. Thing is that the DNC was preaching one thing and doing another, while simultaneously raising issues that were completely irrelevant to 95%+ of its base. "You can't feed your family? OK, but that trans kid who you probably never interact with at any point in your life has now rights, and I will base my whole identity around that!" Do you know how many people are transexual in the United States? Less than 1%.
You are right, if you want equality you don't vote for the GOP, but you sure as hell don't vote for the DNC either.
I'm sorry but if you can't be happy that a fellow human has human rights then there is nothing more to say. It doesn't matter that there are a small percentage of them. Because the fact of the matter is, trans rights are a sign for the rest of the country in question, human rights matter, take away trans rights, now the rest of the queer community, then POC then women are open to it. So it doesn't just affect the trans community. If you mean making human rights my identity then you're damn right I'm proud to make human rights my identity.
Of course I am happy that they have rights! I am just saying that it should be irrelevant. It shouldn't be the platform that the candidates run on. They should just give LGBTQI+ rights, and run on a more socialist platform that will raise the poor and lower the rich. But of course DNC is run by the establishment, and they have certain agendas, so that would never happen. So what's a point of contention that the two parties can easily have? LGBT rights!
It should be the case yes, but it isn't
Yep. And that's why we are sliding into fascism.
Imo, you're right for the wrong reason
Haha, we can agree to disagree. At least we seem to be on the same general team 😜
Yes I think generally we both want the world to be better, and we have different views on how to achieve that goal.
I will be able to tell my grandchildren I voted directly against the horrors they will be* learning about in history class. No need for supporting arguments about how doing otherwise was a more genuine rejection of this fucked up system.
So you did not vote for the government that facilitated the genocide in Gaza, and went above and beyond to protect Netanyahu, and fund his campaign of destruction?
The horrors did not start January 20, 2025.
You were complicit in getting Trump elected the moment you didnt vote for his opponent.
Did he have only one opponent? Last time I checked there were more than two candidates.
What is the point of this? You are saying the vote didn't matter and berating the person for (your assumption) their vote at the same time.
You Americans need to unite, not squabble like this. Unless of course you are supporting Trump's agenda, then it is good to squabble and make sure people stay divided.
No my point was about harm mitigation
Go figure... Maybe those who stayed home and didnt vote made a conscious choice for "certain, quick, unpleasant end" instead of "slow, uncertain end".