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To each their own, but Bethesda's games are all too often criticized for having breadth but not depth, and as time has gone on, I've agreed with that more and more. Avowed is scoped smaller than an Elder Scrolls, by a lot, but its depth appears to be in its combat.
I guess it depends on what kind of depth youre looking for. Depth of lore, attributes and upgrades? Skyrim has plenty. Depth of gameplay? Things get a little more murky.
I will agree that Elder Scrolls games have never had combat be their strongest feature and that is definitely what Obsidian focused on with Avowed to make it stand out.
I think attributes and upgrades tie back into gameplay, but we also all ended up playing stealth archers, and even if you never put stats into something that made things like lockpicking easier, it kind of didn't matter, because the minigame wasn't difficult and lockpicks are cheap. I think Bethesda's games at least up to Skyrim have been great evolutions of the medium, but it also feels like, for all the work they put into their systems, they never got anywhere close to what Larian has built since Skyrim's release.
I mean, yeah, the systems in skyrim werent deep, but at least they were there and somewhat entertaining. You just hold a button to "lockpick" in Avowed. You just roll a die like you do for everything in BG3. Personally I never used bows in skyrim, always enchanted single-handed weapons and destruction.
Larian Should have built more intricate rpg systems since then and they have, Skyrim is a decade and a half old. The caveat is that they have done so by abandoning active combat gameplay. Their combat systems are fun, they just arent engaging like Avowed or even Skyrim. Again to each their own, im sure many rpg players dont care one bit about active/realistic combat simulation. If Elden Ring's success is an example though, then many people do want engaging combat.
Again with Avowed, it is a brand new game and compared to its only direct competitor(14yo skyrim) it feels lacking in every way except when you hit something with a weapon. And i guess thats ok, but only for like $30 or less.
I think what I'm getting at is that, from my perspective, the only thing that's really in Skyrim's favor compared to Avowed is how big it is, because if I wanted satisfying RPG systems or such, I'd find them elsewhere. I enjoy both real time and turn based games, and nothing about Larian's RPG systems require them to be turn based, so it would be nice to see more of those kinds of systems in games like Bethesda's going forward, but given how Starfield turned out, I doubt we will. Bethesda gives all of their NPCs schedules, there's physics at play, and NPCs will care if you steal their stuff, but those systems never seem to manifest in anything more interesting than putting a bucket on someone's head so they can't see you thieving, so I'm not really missing anything in Avowed when those systems are absent.
Ok i understand that. I am of the mind that in Elder Scrolls games, the world is more than its physical size. The books, consistent lore in exposition and npc interactions, the many unique side quests that contribute to the lore, stumbling into a 2-3 hour dungeon that expands on a race you havent heard of and now get to learn about that lore...
None of that natural and self paced experience of a diverse world with rich lore happens in Avowed. It happens in Larian's games and that is another thing that makes them great.
Starfield was definitely a sign that Bethesda isnt what it used to be, and it doesnt give me hope for the next Elder Scrolls. Starfield had alot of lore, it just wasnt very interesting because the galaxy was so dull. I loved the gameplay actually, but it didnt matter when exploring felt like raiding the same 3 structures on different shades of the same planet. There was too little to unique to find while exploring.
I guess thats what i have to have from an rpg, rewarding exploration. That allows me to be much more forgiving on other fronts.
Avowed has enjoyable platforming, but youre reward for it in the end usually only amounts to a backpack full of weightless items you dont need to care about, and maybe a few sentences on a note.
I do find the exploration in Avowed to be rewarding, and those items you pick up and a few sentences on a note are exactly the same as what I tend to find in Skyrim, with lore that's marginally more interesting; I'm kind of surprised that you find them to be meaningfully different and better in Skyrim. The thing that Avowed solves by being a smaller game is that when I find a dungeon, it doesn't feel like the last three dungeons I explored, because they didn't need to make as many of them, so they could spend more time making that one dungeon.
Yeah Avowed definitely boils it down, i guess it all depends on what hooks you. I never got tired of exploring dungeons in skyrim, the variation in them was enough for me, and i feel like there isnt nearly enough in avowed to keep me interested.
The benefit to the added time making less dungeons in avowed was the depth of platforming and yes better level design. Probably my favorite part of avowed actually. It all just left me wanting though. My rewards for platforming were never more than a few inconsequential items i didnt care about. Thats how the game lost me.
Yeah you didnt often find much in skyrim dungeons, but the sheer amount of them, no 2 the same, with the majority of them corresponding with some lore or quest... That made me feel like i was in a real, fully fleshed out world.
Ya know, it also might be that the lore of avowed just seems too bubly and colorful for me.
I enjoyed obsidians other recent rpg, the outer worlds, enough to finish it, i just thought it was too short.
So yeah there definitely are too many variables here to pinpoint exactly why a game resonates with someone or not.
Fair enough. The Outer Worlds definitely felt to me like it was as long as it needed to be and no longer, and that's pretty rare these days, as so many games are ballooning in runtime.