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What does the people living in Crimea want?
Hard to know for sure since polls and elections conducted by the Russian government are about as reliable as my cats' reporting on whether or not there's food in their bowls.
Most likely, the majority consider themselves Ukrainian but are too oppressed by the occupying forces for their voices to be heard.
Crimea voted for independence from the USSR just as other oblasts did. There once was an independence movement but it lost itself between "It'd actually be quite hard for such a small nation" and "Ukraine treats us fairly". No talk but among fringes of the fringe about joining Russia. Good relations with Russia, sure, but that ship now has sailed.
...and that's with the USSR shipping lots of Russians into Crimea over the centuries, diluting the Tatar population. They did even more of that now and those new arrivals will probably, and rightly, be considered illegal immigrants down the line, and deported. Which is mild treatment because settling in occupied territories is a war crime.
As a Tatar whose grandparents were driven away from Crimea in ethnic cleansing conditions by Russia; I wouldnt want Russia to control there.
but again maybe i have a bit of personal bias idk
Slightly wrong question to ask.
russia has a history of genocide by resettlements. A lot of crimeans got forcibly resettled to make room for russians.
Ask pre 2013 crimeans.
The ones that were murdered or forcibly resettled or the russians that moved there after the annexion?
In case you're asking this in good faith, Crimea has been the victim of Russian settler-colonialism, so the people livinh there are the invaders in a lot of cases.
It's like calling a referendum on Gaza conducted by Israel the will of the people.
The ones who were living there when they were invaded or the ones who are still alive?
To be recognised as ukrainian. What else?
The “referendum” they conducted was not at all an accurate representation of the resident’s opinions.
Are you trying to say that you trust literally any electoral mechanisms administered by Russia at this point?
They didn't say anything they asked a question
Also known as JAQing off
And more broadly, the tactic is known as sealioning, and is a tactic commonly used by bad-faith actors.
Who the fuck cares. You dint invade another country their are other ways to achieve the goal if they wanted to join Russia.
Russia cant compete economically, technologically, or diplomatically, all they have is violence and coercion, No one except chauvinists would ever -want- to join Russia, so if Russia wants someone to join them, they really only have one card, war.
My sibling in Christ we do not tell people their own identity they get to decide for themselves?
That's obviously untrue. We've spent centuries endorsing invasion of other countries and obliteration of their native cultures.
NAFOs are very defensive of Ukraine because its territory that was staked out by Western Europe after the fall of the USSR. No takesies-backsies.
Given the choice between living in a authoritarian oligarchy without freedom vs a imperfect european liberal democracy, is not a tough choice for most.
Without knowing a lot about the older historical context here, I would imagine that the people of Russia and Ukraine have been fairly close throughout modern history. They are neighbouring countries with a language that is very similar, and was both a part of the USSR.
To me this attack on Ukraine seems like betraying family and/or friends. Ukraine did nothing besides existing peacefully. Russia decided to take land and citizens from Ukraine by annexing Crimea violently. They have continued killing and destroying Ukraine for years to seize land as their own. I have a tough time imagining Ukrainians in Crimea supporting the killing of their fellow countrymen by their violent neighbour for no good reason.
Since Crimea now is annexed by Russia we can't trust any polls from there either.
I guess Russia should just give it back to Ukraine, and then they can do a legitimate vote. Russia obviously won't do that, because they know how that will end.
What is the saying? If you love something, then set it free. If it was meant to be, it will come back to you. Russia should use that tactic with all regions of Ukraine that it is currently occupying. I am suuuure it will work out for Russia 😂
I love how this is getting downvoted, particularly given that "Crimeans don't want to be a part of Russia!" and "They'd rather die than be occupied!" were big talking points to justify Ukraine's bombing of the territory.
He's being downvoted because it's russian bullshit to distract form the fact that crimea was fucking invaded and taken through violence. After that nobody should care about democratic assent. First get the russians out then ask the people who got invaded a while back wherever they are now.
Who has forgotten about the 2014 invasion? But we've had similar referendums in Iraq and Afghanistan under US occupation. We've accepted votes in Northern Ireland and Indian Kashmir and under coup governments in Chile, Spain, S. Korea, Panama, and Hawaii at face value. Clearly, violent occupation does not disqualify subsequent democratic referendums.
If violence committed by a state institution disqualifies a democracy from functioning, show me which country qualifies as a democratic institution? Territorial control is predicated on violence. Ukrainian territory was only originally under Russian dominion because it was wrested from the Nazis, who wrested it from the Soviets who wrested it from the Russian Imperialists who wrested it from the Ottomans, etc, etc.
At some point, the violence has to end and democracy has to begin. If human life continues to be less important than property rights, the killing never ends.
Why in the fuck are you getting downvoted for this more than reasonable question???
Because it isn't a reasonable question, it is a russian propaganda question that leads to "but they voted to join Russia" which you then need to counter further with "with literal soldiers standing there and checking your ballot for the right answer".
I don't understand why Russias illegitimate referendum gives the EU the authority to decide tho?
Ukraine decides. EU is supporting the intergrity of Ukraine which was unjustly violated by Russia.
What do you mean? Crimea was Ukrainian, it was invaded and then pulled into Russia. EU doesn't have to "decide" anything, it was an invasion and against the law, therefore invalid.
It's on brand for people who unironically refer to Russian conscripts as 'Orks' without any sense of irony.
Im tired of pretending we need to humanize people who abuse POWs by making them dig their own graves before murdering them, castrating them, cutting out their eyeballs, mow down civilians whilst having them all tied in a chain together, or who look at them the wrong way, loot and vandalize people's homes and leave hand grenades and landmines in their cupboards as a parting gift. and all of the other things the esteemed Armiya Rossiya has done to its so called "Slavic Bretheren" the last decade.
and dont get me started on the Dedovschina Rape culture in the Russian Army.
All militaries are violent, but The Russian military takes it to a different level, it's permiated in a culture of savages who revel in the practice of dehumanization, and I shed no tears for people who choose to behave this way, getting put to the sword.
theres a reason some started calling them orcs.
they voted to be independent Ukraine after the Soviet Union fell in 91.