this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2023
569 points (89.7% liked)
Funny: Home of the Haha
7341 readers
1047 users here now
Welcome to /c/funny, a place for all your humorous and amusing content.
Looking for mods! Send an application to Stamets!
Our Rules:
-
Keep it civil. We're all people here. Be respectful to one another.
-
No sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia or any other flavor of bigotry. I should not need to explain this one.
-
Try not to repost anything posted within the past month. Beyond that, go for it. Not everyone is on every site all the time.
Other Communities:
-
/c/[email protected] - Star Trek chat, memes and shitposts
-
/c/[email protected] - General memes
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
One pretty consistent moral among societies is that needlessly causing harm is considered wrong. Outside of lab grown, its impossible to acquire meat without grievously harming an animal. Further, the vast majority of our meat is NOT gained by hunting but instead by factory, and the conditions of meat factories are appalling and horrific. So yes, if we CAN get the nutrients we need without the consumption of meat, that is the most moral way to get our nutrition met. All that being said, even today, being able to meet all nutritional needs without any form of animal cruelty is an incredibly privileged position to be in, and we arent quite at the stage where its fair to judge others for not doing so
(edit: and I say this as a meat eater, meat is fuckin delicious and I dont want to give it up. I'm personally banking on lab grown meat becoming an economical option, at which point we have removed the ethical muddiness of it)
(Edit 2: Lmao, I ruffled the feathers of a lot of meat eaters who've likely never actually had to kill any if the animals they've eaten. I have, I still eat meat. Reality is messy, fucking own it)
Well hunting is a pain in the ass as it is. In an industrialized society we traded markets with shared goods to more specific specialties. Sure I can hunt for food because of licenses and availability but the trade off is most of the people have really good health care. At least objectively they have access to healthcare that can cure things that back in the 1500s would kill you within days.
My point is that at some point someone said "Hey I can take care of the meat portion if you take care of (insert many specialists careers)." There was no morality involved. Choosing to be vegan is fine. I think that it's easier to get certain things from animal sources. So does nature.
besides your total lack of specificity about ethical systems or societies in which they exist, your use of "needlessly" is doing a lot of work there. on the one hand it sets up a no-true-scotsman where you can always claim no need is great enough, but it also gives anyone challenging this claim a loophole the size of a walmart to walk through: just claim it's necessary.
i don't think you really understand the claim you made. worse, if you do, that means you're intentionally using vague language and intellectually dishonest tactics to persuade. this is called sophistry.
Im kinda done arguing with dumbasses in good faith about whether or not killing an animal is less ethical than not killing one. I'm a meat eater, I find meat delicious, and I ALSO recognise that most of the world isnt in a privileged enough position to NOT eat meat in order to fulfill their dietary needs. None of this takes away from the fact that killing is less ethical than not killiing
Abso-fucking-lutely based. Sometimes it's better to just call a dumbass, 'a dumbass' than engage with their bullshit sealioning.
stealing this
calling your interlocutors names is a great way to indicate you're done arguing in good faith, but you just came out and said it. too bad you don't seem capable of defending the claim you're making.
Nah, it just means you idiots arent worth the headache
more name-calling, but no defense for your position.
=D
No one's obligated to debate you. 🙄
I don't want a debate
The problem with this as your moral compass is that "needless" can mean whatever you want it to mean. It's not actually a guideline to any specific behavior
Thats a semantics arguement to a generalized statement which is special kind of stupid. I gave a detailed response to further explain why this applies to meat eating and even ended with saying we havent reached a point in society where its fair to judge others for not abandoning eating meat. Just because society has always done things a certain way, doesnt make it right or moral, slavery was the NORM until around the last couple 100 years, and now its near universally considered atrocious. Meat eating from once living animals will likely be the next once norm, now evil, societal concept. But we arent there yet
The subjectivity of these takes is my entire point.
Damn near everything is subjective dumbass, its why theres so many societal problems that are still around even though they've plagued us for centuries
The entire purpose of a moral compass is to not be subjective. I didn't make the claim that everyone should, or does, live by one set guideline. You did
Morality to some degree HAS to be subjective as its based on the time period it is formed. Society progresses for a reason
"My rights end where yours begin" is not subjective, as one easy example.
Murder is wrong, is another.
That's not universal across all societies.
Historically, getting away with murder has been a privilege certain classes received.
And your fucking example is? Lmao. Im done with you
A lord who has set their rights over serfs to be total still believes my example.
lmao
The idea that morality is entirely based on subjectivity is your personal opinion. You can't use it as if it was a fact and ground your argument upon it like you could do with an actual fact.
This is just totally missing the plot.