this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2023
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The argument for voting for Biden as the lesser evil is reasonable enough, but things like this really makes it seem like the Biden stans don't understand why people find Biden so objectionable. It goes a lot deeper than "disagrees on a few things."
Or when they say but he's the most progressive president since fdr
True but that just show how far right the country has been.
Yeah, it also kind of cuts against the idea that Democrats are a meaningful force for progressivism.
I think the Sanders campaign put the nail in the coffin there.
Superdelegate party darlings don't want it.
It's a damning nail in the coffin for people arguing to work within a system to change it through the "necessary channels." Rosa Luxembourg was correct, revolution is the only real path for change, whether that be by threat of revolution a la the Civil Rights movement, or by building up parallel structures from without, or, hopefully never coming to it, violent means.
Civil Rights was also mobilized through labor but all notion of class identity has been eroded away. Recent labor actions are a breath of fresh air.
Yeah, columnists were really quick to give Biden credit for the UAW's hard work.
And when you look at how Israel is basically fascist when it comes to Palestine and Biden has backed them unconditionally it blurs the lines even more.
But lives overseas don't matter as much as American lives to most of the US.
Is Trump worse? Hell yes. Is Biden good? No.
Ya know, almost 3 years into Biden's presidency and I've only seen like 4 Biden bumper stickers.
I've seen 6 trump bumper stickers this week.
What is a Biden stan? Does a Biden stan have to wear Biden's slogan on a hat? (Is there even a slogan?)
Maybe Biden stans wasn't the right choice of words. I mean people like the one who commented below yours who went off at me for being willing to vote for Biden as a lesser evil rather than activity liking him.
I call those people radlibs, they radically support the establishment dems and firmly reject any suggestion of movement towards the left. One of em asked me if I would rather move America to the left and enable genocide and a Trump victory, or vote Biden, and when I said I'd do both, vote Democrat and make grassroots change to the left like unionizing, they told me I had to choose.
Wtf is that?
Yeah, it's very clear that, for some of them, they're far more concerned with leftists being subservient to liberals than they are in actually getting our votes; just look at the person who went off at me for not thinking Biden is actively good. And they're being upvoted for it too.
Of course because they aren't left, they pander to the left then shame us when it doesn't work. They don't view politics in a dialectical way because they are ideologues. We on the left recognize political ideologies are contingent on economic realities and not the other way around. Liberals have no conception of that, they think if more people can simply be convinced rationally to adhere to an ideaology then political change will happen.
I call them shitlibs. Ten degrees to the left of center in good times, ten degrees to the right of center when it affects them personally.
Personally if anyone is a stan for any politician I cease all contact. Idc about party affiliation, it's the sycophants that get to that place.
I mean, Trump supporters are violent idiots and their insurrectionists keep getting insultingly low sentences. Why risk vandalism?
You used logic, sycophants can't do this.
Thing is, people have lots of reasons to not like Biden. I assume my reasons, for instance, are probably completely different from your reasons. But that's what you get when the guy is actually responsible for things. He'll need to make some decisions that almost nobody likes. That doesn't yet make them wrong decisions, or the totality of his governance wrong.
Genocide
I refer you to my other comment covering that one: https://sopuli.xyz/comment/5516596
Trump’s currently aiding a genocide? I didn’t know.
Trump is actually not the president right now.
Except he's not the lesser of two evils. What a braindead take.
If you have to eat brocoli or asparagus, you can whine about lesser of two, but when one guy is LITERARILY trying to overthrow democracy and is actively calling for a dictatorship you are NOT choosing between the lesser of two evils.
You're choosing between broccoli and Ebola infested diarrhea.
When Republicans stop being INSANE we can go back to the bOtH sIdEs / lesser of two evils circlejerck, until then stop this muddying of waters bullshit.
The two options aren't similar or even in the same stratosphere.
See, this is exactly what I'm talking about; it would be one thing if leftists were just being asked to vote Biden pragmatically, but it's constantly being made clear that, for a lot of liberals, this is about us kneeling down and kissing the ring of the ghouls running the Democratic party.
Im not sure that's a real person, all these overly hostile if you dont vote biden you're as evil as trump posts only serve to try dissuade votes for Biden. It's the kind of noise that helps break down any cohesion between those who are anti-trump.
They seem to be a real person to me. They also have twice as many upvotes than downvotes, so clearly people agree with them.
The difference here is that for leftists, liberalism is still evil, just that fascism is far more so. Biden would still be considered the lesser of two evils in that instance.
Talking down to leftists as though their complaints are illegitimate and pushing a narrative that "Biden is good, actually" just furthers voter apathy, the correct way to engage with leftists is to point out how voting as a leftist is loss prevention. Because voting will never move America to the left, leftists must work on the ground to build grassroots movements, unionize, organize, protest, and more, while voting Democrat to keep fascists out of office.
Telling clearly passionate people that their criticisms are invalid and that their problems don't matter is an extremely privledged position to hold. For many people, the status quo itself is bad. People can't afford to just vote Democrat, they already can't afford many necessities and are already being targeted by fascists.
If you saw, "Broccoli: better than Ebola infested diarrhea! - Brought to you by the Broccoli Growers of America," you would say that their messaging needed work.
If only people would dig a little deeper they would find Biden has really done a lot. Further, he is discouraging Israel in many ways. MSM fail.
Name them.
Discouraged Isreal by providing them huge amounts of weapons, covering for them in the UN, and making it clear that the USA will support them no matter what
I mean, his administration kinda has, like with the restrictions on the M16s heading over there, but he himself is out publicly calling himself a Zionist and offering the most lukewarm criticisms possible, if at all.
It's extremely condescending towards leftists from a vague sense of liberal superiority, like an out of touch talk show host or establishment dem.
Yeah, exactly. If liberals were willing to treat leftists respectfully as political equals when they make their case, they'd probably get much better results than the current approach of acting really indignant about leftists not falling into line.
That's when they call you a republican bot, lol
More likely they'll call you a Russian bot, because they don't actually think that the Republican Party as an institution is bad, they just think it has been subverted by scheming foreigners.
No, radlibs, I don't want a "strong republican party" as an opposition to "keep us in check." The ones I love and care for aren't privledged enough to play with that kind of fire. I want cooperation and a movement for leftist organization.
They understand. They just want their hostages to shut up and develop Stockholm syndrome already.