Please start your comments with the following question answered at the top:
"Will you vote for Biden in the 2024 election?" [Y/N]
this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2024
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No.
You cannot hold us hostage and blame us if Trump wins. Biden can stop supporting a genocide. The DNC could drop him as a candidate.
This is a choice the Democratic elite are making. And if there are no consequences here then there's no hope to get off this pro corporate train into fascism either. They'll just keep following the GOP to the right until in 2028 it's, "we have to support Harris Youth because DeSantis would dissolve Congress."
I've watched the Democrats dive to the right every single election in my life, except one. And I've held my nose every single time they did it.
There are so many people on Lemmy who don't get this. I don't know why.
It feels like they think the only choice is Fascism or Fascism-Lite. The other option is to put your foot down and let the world know you want better, not slightly less bad.
If all these people who'll be brigading these comments with "Not voting Biden is a vote for Trump" would email their representatives instead to say no to all this bullshit, we'd be fine.
But no, it's me that's wrong. I have to vote for the octagenarian war criminal to avoid WW3. It can't be the DNC that fucked up by not fielding a better candidate. I already did this in 2016. I'm not keen to do this again.
Biden is a terrible candidate, yes.
But it really is a choice between an old man I think is a bad candidate or a literal treasonous fascist. And no amount of bellyaching will change that.
So I'm gonna hold my nose, vote Biden, and encourage more people to be active in the primary elections to prevent this bullshit.
Is the “war criminal” in the room with you?
Trump also committed war crimes. And it's not like he wouldn't be even worse when it comes to treatment of Palestinians.
Yeah. It's a shit choice. But it's still a binary one and no amount of squeezing your eyes tight and wishing it were different will change the reality that the next President will be either A Republican or a Democrat.
You aren't going to make you voice heard by voting third party or sitting out. Anything other than a vote for Biden is a decision to support Trump.
So make your choice.
I don't care about Trump. I'm not voting for him. There isn't a world in which he could earn my vote. I care about Biden. I was told to hold my nose and vote for him. I was told I could pressure him to do the right thing. I told other people to do that.
And now we're giving literal bombs to a genocidal regime and Biden is acting like we don't exist.
I'm choosing to "get off the bus". It's no longer going somewhere I want to go.
So what you're saying is that because you don't like Biden's handling of Isreal/Palestine that you're going to passively support someone who would handle it even worse on behalf of a party that's controlled by a doomsday cult that actively wants WWIII to break out there?
You're on this bus, like it or not. You can't choose not to participate, because sitting on your hands has real consequences.
Last time Trump saw in charge he split the country worse than it's ever been divided since the Civil War, dismantled the agencies that would have prevented a pandemic that killed millions, supported fascist regimes while trying to install one here, and committed war crimes and assassinations, and poisoned the federal judiciary for decades.
If he were still President, there would be millions of dead Ukrainians and he would have stated carpet-bombing Palestine directly by now.
If he gets re-elected, or will be because of people who think that choosing not to participate is a legitimate option, and you will be responsible for every nightmarish thing he does except for the mishandling of Israel.
I don't have any say in his policies. That's why it's on politicians to earn votes. The entire system is meant to flush out politicians who refuse to listen to their constituents. Putting responsibility on the voters to show up regardless of that makes the entire system useless.
You: whinge on the current state of American politics.
Actual literal fascists: take control of the nation.
You: well okily dokily I'm putting my foot down guys. It's time for us to do better.
Great job, you really did it. The world is a better place. Lmao. The fucking naivete.
Well said, but it fell on deaf ears. They already know they’re not voting. The right-wing propaganda they fed on is already digested.
We can, and will. But that doesn’t really matter as we all know that all of you will disappear come November when you find something else to FOTW complain about. You did it in 2016, and again in 2020 when you were called “Bernie Bros” and you’ll do it again here in 2024.
But don’t worry though… The rest of us will do our best to keep democracy running for you.
gEnoCiDe!
Biden isn’t committing genocide kiddo. You’ve bought into the right-wing propaganda for far too long, and is time you get called out for it.
Nope. And the conservatives are all in on Israel. Gaza is a genocide under the UN definition. Specifically they are corralling people into an area the size of a major airport and dropping enough bombs to make an area ten times the size shudder. They created that situation by not allowing people to evacuate through their lines. Which is also a war crime. Now that they've created it, everyone from retired European military officers to the UN is shouting that it's impossible to drop bombs in there without causing massive civilian casualties.
Furthermore they're restricting food aid into the entire area. Refusing to allow enough in for people to survive. They've actually reduced the amount they're letting in since the ICC ruling that they immediately take steps to allow more aid in.
This is what a genocide looks like. It looked like this in Rwanda, in Sudan, in Myanmar, and on and on.
As I said, BIDEN is not committing genocide. That is what you’re suggesting. I’m refuting THAT and that alone.
Oh so it's okay then. He didn't murder them, he just gave them the bombs to do it, knowing what was happening. Why didn't you say so? It's all okay now!
I didn’t say it’s okay. I said it’s not genocide. Do you under this simple concept?
The problem here is that you all seem to think just because you move the goalposts around, everyone else will have to play by your new rules.
It doesn’t work like that. So stop with the genocide Joe bullshit. It’s trying and old and we’re all sick of correcting you.
Which is it? Because I laid out the genocide and you said but that's not Biden doing it and now you're back to its not genocide. Are you trying to work your way down the narcissist's prayer? Because if you are, you're doing it badly.
For the record you've tried -
That's not a crime.
And if it is a crime Biden didn't do it.
You should be here -
ROFL… this is why no one takes you seriously.
Says the one who thinks Biden's responsibility in the Gaza genocide is a pick and choose menu.
No matter where you move the goalposts to, the argument remains the same. You just look foolish and desperate now.
Bud my goalposts have been the same this whole time. The IDF is commiting a genocide and Biden is responsible because he's knowingly supplying it.
Again, genocide would be attempted regardless of Biden’s involvement. You’re incredibly ignorant and naive if you even begin to think otherwise.
Even if that were true, he could at the very least not give them the bombs to do it with. But in reality Israel has stopped bombing at his behest before. And the IDF publicly said they could not operate like this without American bombs.
You're twisting yourself pretty hard to defend Biden, but this really is indefensible.
So, you admit Biden is not committing genocide?
How do you even come to that conclusion? It's this a translation error or something?
Look up the definition of genocide, come back here and post it as a response- then explain to me how Biden is guilty of it.
You keep trying to go to Biden is innocent because he's not actively committing the genocide.
So here it is again.
And the UN definition with the bits Israel is doing highlighted.
Yawn… I made my point. You’re wrong. Move along now.
Sure you have. And the sky is actually green. I'm just not playing your games.
Again, I made my point- you’re wrong. And be thankful that right now you have the freedom to BE wrong. Because while the rest of us are going to bust out asses trying to ensure you continue to have the right to speak against the administration, if we lose because of your little temper tantrums, the next one won’t allow it.
Take cake kiddo.
Do I though? Have you actually looked at what happens if you hold up a sign on the wrong street corner and the cops get mad at you? It's not pretty, and it's a lot more like Russia than you want to think.
Do you even know what you’re talking about?
Nope not a clue.
Is moving the goalposts around so much that the topic of discussion isn’t even remotely in the same wheelhouse as it started really the only way you think you can make a point?
My god this is incredibly embarrassing.
Lmao you're the one who talked about the election and losing the first amendment. You went there.
Again, do you even know what you’re talking about?
By the way, I checked your comment history, and as predicted- you didn’t give a rats ass about Palestine 5 months ago.
Not a single word on the subject.
was MSNBC talking about it 7 months ago? what about Fox News? you get a lot of Israel news coming out of the CBS evening news 6 months ago? this is such a disingenuous accusation you should be ashamed.
The democracy, The average voter has no real policy influence over? Bragging about upholding the status quo with no results is crazy. You can't even this old man to stop enabling genocide. Dems continue to do whatever the GOP asks for with little resistance. All you can do is scream at people to vote harder.
You honestly think that Israel wouldn’t be doing what they’re doing if Biden weren’t involved at all? My god the right-wing propaganda delusion is worse than I thought.
Right propaganda is when the President doesn't enable genocide.
It’s comments like this that serves to illustrate why no one takes you seriously.