this post was submitted on 08 Mar 2024
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President Biden told a Democratic lawmaker and members of his Cabinet after the State of the Union address that he told Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that they will need to have a “come-to-Jesus meeting.”

Biden’s comments, captured on a hot mic as he spoke with Sen. Michael Bennet (D-Colo.) on the floor of the House chamber, came after Bennet congratulated the commander in chief on his speech and pressed him to keep pressure on Netanyahu over increasing humanitarian issues in Gaza.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

Despite my best instincts, I'll bite... When did Biden "promise support for genocide"?

  • Biden is not in any way responsible for the October 7th terror attacks and war crimes (targeted killing of civilians, sexual violence and kidnapping, to name a few) that started this whole mess, Hamas (who are the ruling party of Gaza and have been for over a decade) are.
  • Biden is also no in any way responsible for the Israeli response, nor is he in any control of the tactics used by the IDF in achieving their goals. Like every US President, real or imaginary, Biden will continue to support Israel because they are (a) our closest ally in the region (b) a home to many US citizens and a cultural site to many US jews, christians and muslims and (c) under constant threat of attack from every angle by enemies who in some cases have vowed to "wipe Israel of the map" (to name a few, Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Iran).
  • Despite what lemmy-think might have one believe, neither the UN, the ICJ, or any reputable organization have been able to show evidence that escalates what we're seeing in Gaza to any kind of war crime, let alone "genocide". There are 2 million people living in Gaza, and if Israel's goal was genocide we'd be seeing a lot more death and destruction than we are today. (Help elect Trump and I guess we might get a closer look at it.)
  • The Biden administration has been much more effective at delivering aid (by air and now by sea) to Gazans than the UN, Hamas or anyone else.

Biden doesn't want to see innocent civilians killed, be they Israeli Jews or Palestinian Arabs. Why would he?

Unlike Netanyahu and Hamas, Biden gains literally zero political benefit from the war. His life and his job would objectively be much easier if there was peace in the middle east. You know that as well as I do. In fact, I'd say it's plainly obvious to anyone with half a brain. This war is a drain and a distraction from the US's resources ability to defend Ukraine from Russia, it makes the region (and thus, the world) less safe, and it is nothing but a political vulnerability to Biden. And still, there is not a serious politician in this country that would even consider removing support of Israel in the wake of the October 7th attacks, especially given a hostage crisis that is now entering its 6th fucking month.

In other words, while you're entitled to your subjective opinion that what's happening in Gaza amounts to a genocide or other war crimes, you can't seriously blame Biden for any of it.

If you're looking for someone to blame here, look no further than Netanyahu's government and Hamas--two entities that have repeatedly propped each other up as boogeymen in order to push their communities into the political fringe for the sake of power. Netanyahu literally funded and boosted Hamas, and Hamas has done everything to maximize civilian casualties (also a war crime, btw) on both sides of the conflict.

There have now been multiple reasonable ceasefire negotiations that the Biden administration has helped negotiate which Hamas has unilaterally rejected. The world is only waiting for Hamas to do what they should have done months ago: return the hostages, lay down their weapons, and turn over the war criminals and terrorists who made it their mission to rape, kill and pillage Israel on October 7th. The ball in unquestionably in their court, and it has been for months.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

>There have now been multiple reasonable ceasefire negotiations that the Biden administration has helped negotiate which Hamas has unilaterally rejected

Hamas has made offers that have been ignored as well.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

(a) Their "offers" are unacceptable because the involve returning the hostages over the span of months, not days. (b) the last time Hamas and Israel had a ceasefire, Hamas broke the ceasefire by attacking Isreal on October 7th. (c) Hamas are losing this war, very badly, and are not in a position to dictate their terms on Israel.

If you want a ceasefire, and you should, stop defending Hamas and start realizing that they are the ones who need to surrender and release the damn hostages. God damn.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

in arabic, there is no idiomatic equivalent to "wipe off the map."

you're regurgitating imperialist propaganda.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If you're going to embarrassingly try to argue literal semantics, then you should at least know that Persians ("Iranians") speak Persian, not Arabic. 🤦

Iran has repeatedly called for the complete and total destruction (see: actual genocide) or Israel and its people over multiple decades. Iran funds and supports Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthi's and many other extremist groups in the region.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

>And still, there is not a serious politician in this country that would even consider removing support of Israel in the wake of the October 7th attacks, especially given a hostage crisis that is now entering its 6th fucking month.

tlaib and omar have been quite vocal as well as may others. the only way you can claim this isn't misinformation is by playing at no true Scotsman.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Being "quite vocal" is purely politics. Actions speak louder than words, and you know that.

It's not the same thing as disarming our closest ally in the Middle East, which again, is something that NO U.S. President would do. Not Joe Biden, Not Donald Trump, Not Bernie Sanders, Not Ted fuckin' Cruz or whatever asshole the Republicans will come up with next. Israel is too important to America culturally and strategically, and they are under too many active threats from their neighbors.

America will continue to support Israel unless Netanyahu really takes the gloves off and starts indiscriminately waging genocide. Unless Trump is reelected, in which case he'll probably directly help "clean up" Gaza and the West Bank, and then you'll really have something to be angry about. I guess we'll see...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

>turn over the war criminals and terrorists who made it their mission to rape,

I have never seen credible evidence of this.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

kidnapping and murder are crimes, not war crimes. Hamas isn't an army, and they don't control a state. there is no war.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hamas didn't start this, Britain and the UN did.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

If you're going to go back 100 years, why stop there?

Why not blame the Ottoman Empire, the Rashidun Islamic Caliphate, the Byzantine Empire of Eastern Rome, etc.

The fact is that Palestine and Israel as countries were created at roughly the same time. Israeli Jews have existed there for thousands of years. The tribe called the Philistines have been there possibly just as long, and supposedly the were often at war with the Judah and Israelites. Though the Philistines were neither arabs nor muslims, who came in around 500 years ago during the Rashidun Islamic Caliphate (still a long time, longer than America has existed).

There has never in thousands of years of history been a free, self-governed, single state of Palestine. Both the Israelis and Palestinians have cultural and historic claims over the region going back hundreds, if not thousands, of years. This suggests to me that the only real and viable solution for peace is a two-state solution in which both sides lay down arms and learn to coexist peacefully. Neither Netanyahu nor Hamas are truly interested in a two-state solution, and as such I consider them both to be enemies of peace.

(And before you spend to much time defending Hamas, please know that disproportionate violence targeted directly at civilians, sexual violence against civilians, kidnapping of civilians, hiding militants behind a civilian human shield, etc., are ALL actual war crimes, and that Hamas has openly supported genocide against Israeli Jews since their founding charter in 1988.)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

>Biden is also no in any way responsible for the Israeli response, nor is he in any control of the tactics used by the IDF in achieving their goals.

under pax americana, he can decide whether Israel comes to the table and stops shooting. instead, he continues to arm and fund them and say he, too, is a zionist