this post was submitted on 15 May 2024
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What about Republicans denting women healthcare, trying to overturn an election, pandering to an authoritarian who is currently facing a whole stack of felonies he most likely committed based on his bragging about them, and dtoking public anger by encouraginng violence?
Maybe we just want to avoid having the nation state start exterminating anyone who doesn't agree with a fascist MAGA government.
I’m with you in that trump is bad, and I will do what is needed when it comes time to vote to make sure he is not president again. BUT all that you listed is still not worse than the genocide of over 35,000 people. All Biden needs to do is stop spending our tax dollars in support of this ethnic cleansing
You're under the impression that our healthcare system alone doesn't kill 35,000 a year? I'm sure it's a lot higher than that
What?! I know the US healthcare system is totally fucked and no potential president running this year is going to fix it, but when did the healthcare system start using 2,000 pound bombs and begin ethnically cleansing?
Does it matter if it's bombs or denying claims to dying cancer patients (among 100 other injustices)? I'd argue the bombs are more honest at least.
Yes, there is a difference. Even in this completely insane “death panels” hypothetical situation, I still would not stand with genocide.
So brave, unlike the rest of us. Because yes my point was I'd love to choose genocide. Not that they both are horrific violations of human rights or anything like that.
It says a lot about your character and what you actually value that you think the way Trump would allow Israel to treat Palestinians is preferable to what Biden is doing.
I absolutely don’t think Trump is preferable. I would like Biden to stop using my tax dollars to fund this genocide. That has nothing to do with trump
Yes elections are just thought experiments
The difference is that the complicated mess of a healthcare system can't be fixed unilaterally by bypassing congress like supplying arms to Israel.
I think that drawing back support for Israel is far more complicated than you folks realize.
But maybe you all have political science degrees and just don't feel like explaining your reasoning? I just know enough to know that is a sticky situation and isn't just as easy as canceling a Netflix subscription or something like many seem to think it is
If Ronald fucking Reagan was able to figure out how to withhold aid to Israel to get them to withdraw from Beirut and Lebanon, I'm sure Biden can. Reagan also allowed 21 UN resolutions against Israel. How utterly embarrassing it must be to be worse than Reagan on anything. I guess all they have to do is say "it's a complicated issue" ad nauseam until you actually believe nothing can be done about actively arming a genocide.
There's a difference in saying "it probably is more complicated than you realize" and "just shut up and accept genocide" but thanks for turning the conversation into this
Sorry I'm not going to "but he's just a widdle guy and it's complicated" when Biden sent over another $1 Billion in arms to Israel today. If trump was funding this genocide right now, you'd be acting differently.
Probably because trump would be wholeheartedly fueling the fucking fire. You know, like what's going to end up happening if people fuck around leading up to this November
Biden better stop fucking around and fueling fires then.
Yes Biden, noted Lemmy user.
When trump nukes Palestine at least you'll feel great about "supporting" it with your absurd Russian roulette tactics
The whole point of this imperialist project is to take something valuable from someone else. Why the hell would trump nuke the valuable waterfront property which Jared Kushner (and honestly probably trump himself) wants to buy as well as negatively impact the entire region for the rest of human life on earth? Do you have to escalate to near impossibilities to seem worse than what biden is currently doing? Half a million Palestinians are starving due to manufactured famine and you’d want that trajectory to continue because in a future they won’t be alive for, you would speculate they have it worse. Do you honestly care about their lives or are you using them for political leverage for your own sake?
If you don’t want the threat of another trump presidency, it’s time for you to start joining others to urge biden to reverse course, because you won’t be able to convince me that supporting genocide is a single issue that can be overlooked.
This and similar recent posts were made for you
If genocide isn’t a single issue that’s worth being a line in the sand for you, what is? Am I speaking to someone without a spine or without a heart?
We both know trump will make it worse, and you're advocating for trump whether accidentally or not. It gets harder and harder to buy that people don't understand the two party system, i just have to assume you don't care about actual consequences, only feeling superior. Which your last question hints at.
Do I feel superior to someone who thinks genocide isn’t a non-negotiable? Sure. But the issue here is that biden would rather lose to trump than change course and do the right (and also popular) thing. He might take down the entire Democratic Party with him as well, and then we’re stuck with a single party with trump at the head. Biden’s team knows how unpopular this all is. And with the general theme of elections being “republicans fall in line, democrats fall in love”, biden having a lower approval rating than trump is such a wild warning sign. If Biden loses, the blame will be his own.
You could oppose funding this war but also remain clear that you understand the fact that Trump would be FAR worse.
But you did not choose that. You chose to completely avoid talking about that primary fact in this conversation. You've chosen to pretend all that matters is sending a message.
So what you've created is a situation where you're morally indefensible while claiming the opposite. Your actions will lead to exponentially more human suffering if enough people join you in this misguided asinine Russia-funded propaganda campaign.
So yeah you have no grounds to feel superior. You're the worst: a person who doesn't care about who they hurt, but cares deeply about their own feelings. And you're looking down your nose at people who can see basic cause and effect as though they're scum
What leverage do you hope to impart on democratic leadership if you say “okay okay fine, do a genocide as long as trump isn’t president! I’ll vote for you!” If they know they have your vote, why would they change course?
I have so much more to lose should trump become president than biden. Of course I would be better off if biden was president since I’m queer in a ruby red state. But my comfort and safety isn’t remotely comparable to genocide. If all this is on the line- if trump brings about unfathomable human suffering, if the fate of the country and the entire world is at stake, why isn’t Biden trying harder to win? Why is he doubling and tripling down on this extremely unpopular move?
You might think that it’s propaganda fueled, and you’re right, but I don’t think you’re seeing the entire picture. Of course propagandists will try to inflame existing issues (though I’d argue that genocide in itself is an issue worthy of ire). But if a propagandist decided to deride and chastise those who are against genocide, that is more likely to cause those people to stay home since “it’s essentially giving a vote to trump”. But if they vote for Cornell west or Claudia de la Cruz, they will still likely vote for progressives or even democrats down the ballot. Leftists staying home due to negative discourse around protests and anger against Biden’s actions will cement Republican control not only federally, but locally as well. Both of us likely have an army of propagandists fighting on our sides, so it’d be best to keep that in mind when in these discussions. Biden is likely to lose since this democracy isn’t strong enough to keep trump off the ballot while biden is not trying hard enough to win, but the degree of his loss is what’s to be determined.
The primary fact in this discussion isn’t that trump would be worse- of course he would be. The primary fact is that continuing down this road where one party is always a bit more fascist and huge groups of democrats are now ratcheted so far to the right, they’re being stripped of a moral code and being too afraid to fight injustices that are signed off by their hands, it WILL eventually give us fascism in our lifetime whether it is trump or someone else.
I'm not reading this. My last comment was a good summary of the disagreement here and you've no interest in engaging that, only jerking off
Too bad I gave direct responses to you which has been largely ignored throughout this entire conversation. 👋
💦💦💦💦🍆
the hypothetical worst case you propose if trump gets elected is literally not as bad as where palestine already is
It also hasn't happened so it can be avoided.
don't worry this also won't be the last genocide attempt in either of our lifetimes
It isn't the only genocide going on right now.
you're arguing support of biden because "he isn't failing to stop a genocide, he's failing to stop multiple genocides"
"Needs to stop supporting genocide" is not the same thing as "stopping genocude".
Maybe you should learn to read before putting words in other people's mouths.
okay then why don't you tell me why "there are multiple genocides happening while biden is president" is a relevant point to bring up in context that helps your case
I was responding in agreement to this.
Are you angry that I agreed with you?
the point being that continuing to vote for parties that refuse to stop supporting genocides will result in those genocides continuing unopposed