this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2023
1825 points (94.3% liked)
linuxmemes
24305 readers
1857 users here now
Hint: :q!
Sister communities:
Community rules (click to expand)
1. Follow the site-wide rules
- Instance-wide TOS: https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
- Lemmy code of conduct: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_conduct.html
2. Be civil
- Understand the difference between a joke and an insult.
- Do not harrass or attack users for any reason. This includes using blanket terms, like "every user of thing".
- Don't get baited into back-and-forth insults. We are not animals.
- Leave remarks of "peasantry" to the PCMR community. If you dislike an OS/service/application, attack the thing you dislike, not the individuals who use it. Some people may not have a choice.
- Bigotry will not be tolerated.
3. Post Linux-related content
- Including Unix and BSD.
- Non-Linux content is acceptable as long as it makes a reference to Linux. For example, the poorly made mockery of
sudoin Windows. - No porn, no politics, no trolling or ragebaiting.
4. No recent reposts
- Everybody uses Arch btw, can't quit Vim, <loves/tolerates/hates> systemd, and wants to interject for a moment. You can stop now.
5. 🇬🇧 Language/язык/Sprache
- This is primarily an English-speaking community. 🇬🇧🇦🇺🇺🇸
- Comments written in other languages are allowed.
- The substance of a post should be comprehensible for people who only speak English.
- Titles and post bodies written in other languages will be allowed, but only as long as the above rule is observed.
6. (NEW!) Regarding public figures
We all have our opinions, and certain public figures can be divisive. Keep in mind that this is a community for memes and light-hearted fun, not for airing grievances or leveling accusations. - Keep discussions polite and free of disparagement.
- We are never in possession of all of the facts. Defamatory comments will not be tolerated.
- Discussions that get too heated will be locked and offending comments removed.
Please report posts and comments that break these rules!
Important: never execute code or follow advice that you don't understand or can't verify, especially here. The word of the day is credibility. This is a meme community -- even the most helpful comments might just be shitposts that can damage your system. Be aware, be smart, don't remove France.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
um ACKSHUALLY you can disable Windows Update competely by setting group policies to disable automatic updates and specify a custom URL for Windows Update and point it to nothing. There a few other local group policies you can configure to further prevent updates, just open the Local Group Policy Editor and go to Computer/Administrative Templates/Windows/Windows Update (or something like that, look for Windows Update under Computer Administrative Templates).
I know this because literally yesterday I had to undo all of that so I could download something from the Microsoft Store (doing this also prevent MS Store apps from downloading)
All the hustle for the issue that does not exist on Linux distros.
If you were to throw all Windows users onto Linux starting tomorrow… the vast majority will be running the version that was first installed, forever.
Windows update was, long ago, a manual process. The majority of users literally never updated. The current method of opt-out-with-effort is honestly the best solution out there for these types of users.
And I guarantee you, if the majority of Linux users weren’t power users, the same would soon be the case for popular linux distros.
I'm pretty sure that without updating to a decently recent version, you can't install any new packages on some Linux distros.
If all they ever use it for is internet, and email within their browser, why would that matter to them?
My parents turn their computer on maybe once a week? They sit down, use the browser to pay bills, maybe answer an email, then turn it off. They have not installed anything for years. They would virtually never run into something forcing them to update. Hell, they wouldn’t even know if their browser was out of date.
Because internet.
Hackers discover new vulnerabilities in old software every year. The moment an E-mail comes in that uses an E-mail exploit that hiijacks the domain for their bill payment site, they get screwed. Even if they don't have anything worth stealing, hackers may then use their relatively unused computer as a bot in their global botnets. 1 million of those users, and it can be used to, say, DDOS Lemmy.
The only time it's okay to give up on updates is if your computer is never connected to the internet.
You’re missing my point. Why would they care about not being able to install any new software when they don’t install new software as is.
I don't understand your sentence. Who is talking about intentionally installing any software?
I am not referring to them opening an E-mail and reading a request to "Please install this important but suspicious package". I'm talking about them opening a strange but possibly normal E-mail, and BAM - the content of the message abuses a Z-Sort Address Buffer Exploit invented in the year 2018, patched in the year 2018 by Windows, but not downloaded by them, ever. This exploit then remotely installs whatever without them ever knowing. Even if they never put useful information in that computer, they're at least part of a botnet that victimizes DDOS targets.
Read the thread back, the sentence makes sense with context. You’re arguing the same thing I am.
My apologies. I think I overread the statement of “all they use it for is internet and email”, a line often used to justify never updating a computer.
I’m basically with you. The most popular operating system in the world, whatever it is at the time, should force automatic updates.
Installing relevant dependencies is part of package installation. I mean the installation is initiated by user, he doesn't really care how many packages will be installed.
What's bothering people is when user is being forced to update when user didn't have the intent to do it.
Intent/consent, what's the difference?
Also /s
Pop os does give you a fairly visible pop up that there are new updates and you Just need to Click on it and then Click update. If it works on android it should work here. In theory. Like you said too many power users to realisticly check
Well... my PopOS does not report new updates. I have to go to the "store"(Pop_shop) and install updates manually (which I do every few weeks).
Installing "Operating System Updates" is not always a smooth operation: the window downloads 1 update and crashes (disappears).
Probably the best is just to use command line (sudo apt) but thn i have to type the password which is annoying.
Thats apps not system upgrades we are talking about and even then there is a little number on the shop icon with the Number of updates Available.
But Yes typing sudo apt update(or upgrade im not realy sure right now ) followed by flatpak update is way easier, but much less clear for non technical users who are extremly scared of cmd for some reason.
See, you said it yourself, the majority never updates anyway. The problem here is security updates. I'm not sure, but probably Windows has a lot more of those then Linux itself. So Windows users should update to keep themselves "relatively" safe (telemetry doesn't go anywhere). But on Linux if there is a kernel update, then you can run an update in the background and restart whenever you need to. The will be no additional time waisted after you restart the machine (unlike some other OS).
Because the 2 minutes it takes to update after you shut down your computer for the night is such a hassle?
It depends on the user. My machine is on non-stop, because I always need that instant ability to do anything (I am a dev). It is a hustle if you have some work going on and your OS tells you that it will be forced to update itself (restart the machine) no matter what. This is the default behavior on Windows and without trickery you can't disable it.
What, so you do not sleep? Why not reboot the moment you go to bed?
It is bad practice to keep any sort of computer on all the time.
It is the default behaviour because otherwise there will be people who never install updates or reboot their computer, but then complain to Microsoft that their computer broke.
You should blame them, not Microsoft.
You see, all non-root things start to work after you log in (including Android). So, not only that I have to restart my machine, but also wait for the login screen and authenticate myself. Then lock the user to see the big clock (I need it). That's why it's not just reboot and go to sleep.
A lot of the time I can't finish my stuff before bed so I have to leave everything as it is. It's normal for developers, but it's not common for regular users (I think).
Again, even if I need to reboot, it will take 1-2 minutes and I can continue to use my machine. You cannot expect such a quick update-reboot from Windows.
Why would you even what to stop an update? Genuine question, I've never had that problem (except when Linux mint got an update for virtual machine pushed to desktop users, breaking their DE).
I don't know why you asking me since I don't stop updates. You mean prevent OS from auto updating itself? Probably because it can be annoying waiting "you don't know how long" for your OS to update + it will continue updating on boot, so you can't use your machine right away. There is also problem of force updating: https://mander.xyz/comment/2012361.
Sorry, most have replied to the wrong comment.
Agreed, Linux is better, but still good to know how to work with Windows
Yes, if the job will force me to use this (cursed) OS. But there are already 2-3 scripts on GitHub that can disable updates and much more. And I recently used them in virtual machine. Well, they do help, but I can't test by how much.
Doesn't exist on any version of Windows that isn't Home, either, and on that you can set your home connection as metered and it simply won't download updates automatically anymore.
To be blunt, none of the issues in the meme are really issues at all for the average person, while something like Linux constantly having issues just playing games despite Proton actually will be.
But some or majority do use Home version. Metered connection is more of a trick than actual off switch for auto updates (bad UI). It means that you have to lie to turn it off, because most people don't have metered connection (I assume).
You can blame Microsoft for making it's OS default on most desktop machines and therefore most devs are making games specifically for this proprietary OS. Steam is doing it's best to make more and more games available on Linux. Almost all games that I have are perfectly playable on Linux.
Group Policy is unavailable on Home versions.
My internet is trash so I use a program to regulate what can use internet and at what speeds. Turns out windows updates don't happen when they can't access the internet, big success.
How… could an update happen if it can’t get the update? O.o
It can't, that's the point. Blocking data access for programs that like to aggressively and automatically download/upload shit was my entire goal and it required a fairly low amount of effort.
Can't windows natively do that anyway?
I've not seen a way windows can regulate and block individual processes, although I got the program from Windows 10 and never bothered looking in 11.
Windows Firewall is what you are looking for. In Windows firewall you add rules per process and can block them from accessing all networks.
OK that's not as useful as what I use then, because I typically just limit the speed, and blocking is only there for stuff that I don't want to even try.
Interesting thta you can use Windows firewall to stop windows updates though