this post was submitted on 28 Oct 2024
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Lefty Memes

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An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.

Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.

If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.

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Rules

Version without spoilers

0. Only post socialist memes


That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)


0.5 [Provisional Rule] Use alt text or image descriptions to allow greater accessibility


We require alternative text (from now referred to as "alt text") to be added to all posts/comments containing media, such as images, animated GIFs, videos, audio files, and custom emojis.
EDIT: For files you share in the comments, a simple summary should be enough if they’re too complex.

We are committed to social equity and to reducing barriers of entry, including (digital) communication and culture. It takes each of us only a few moments to make a whole world of content (more) accessible to a bunch of folks.

When alt text is absent, a reminder will be issued. If you don't add the missing alt text within 48 hours, the post will be removed. No hard feelings.


1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here


Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.


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That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.


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That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).


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The only dangerous minority is the rich.


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Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.



  1. Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:

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submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 64 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Jesus, what do you mean by "you people"?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Nah, not Jesus too 😭

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (8 children)

I'd be shocked if they put that much thought into it. It's probably just good old unconscious ethnocentrism. Jesus is white because I'm white and that's my default setting to view the world.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Or because at that time they only knew white people so they assumed he looks like a person.

It doesn't even have to be some subconscious ethnocentrism. It could just be someone painting what they know people to look like.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

There's quite a bit of evidence they knew what other people looked like. Western Christianity goes big in Italy and they have regular trade contact with the Levant and Northern Africa.

That trade contact comes to the entirety of Europe thanks to the Byzantine Empire, also known as the Eastern Roman Empire.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 7 months ago (16 children)

You know that there's different depictions of Jesus in many races, right? Like, people in Africa have depictions of a black Jesus, for example.

[–] [email protected] 53 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Yeah, I think the far easier explanation is "people around the world depict their religious figures as looking like themselves".

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

Humans depict god and his boy like a human, so yeh makes sense

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

How are we supposed to get outraged at that though?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

Not seeing a lot of purple-skinned five-legged jesuses around here.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 7 months ago (2 children)

It's about European churches using historical revisionism (depicting Jesus as a white European) to establish a sense of "superiority".

Those churches are by far the most dominant

[–] [email protected] 27 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I prefer juiced up Korean Jesus. Does thy god even lift?

[–] [email protected] 24 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

I had to check this out. Jesus!!!

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago

Jesus the Barbarian, amazing ✨

[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Frankly this comes off almost as a conspiracy theory. Christian art in Europe developed its typical imagery when the vast majority of Europeans could have no direct contact with non-Europeans, before colonialism or coherent ideas about racial identities, when far-off lands were thought to be occupied by one-legged giants...

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

You know that... Christianity developed in the Roman Empire? The Middle East (more exactly Palestine and Syria. Which were larger that today's counterparts) wasn't some magical place where giants lived, but a province of said Empire

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

"Black Jesus" is a deliberate response to the traditional white depiction of Jesus, arising out of an acrimonious colonial relationship with whites. We're trying to discuss why Jesus was depicted as white in the first place.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Actually, Christianity in Ethiopia dates from the 4th century and is not the result of European colonialism.

Their Jesus usually looks pretty black.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 7 months ago

Jesus: It's because I'm not your god. I'm god of the people that colonized your country, took some of your people as slaves and made you all believe in me instead of your original black gods.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Jesus is like a Marvel superhero. Like any pop culture fiction, it's rendition changes to reflect and is a product of the era of that particular iteration of the superhero. You even have the religious offspring sect equivalents of Invincible and The Boys.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

Was going to say... there's no shortage of art - historical or modern - that portrays Jesus as the dominant regional ethnicity.

Case in point

A theory that claims multiple leaders – from Jesus to Barack Obama – are actually Turkish and that modern nations are little more than portions of a greater Turkic whole is gaining traction in many countries

[–] [email protected] 20 points 7 months ago
[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Say it louder for the people in the back. This is how white supremacy works. One of capitalism's most powerful tools.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Jesus became white when Christianity spread in Europe and became a European religion. Earlier Jesus paintings had him a few shades darker. Palestinians are still light skinned and the dark skin is mostly acquired from working in the field.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

Jesus is depicted as black in the Ethiopian Orthodox church and is shown as Japanese in some Japanese Orthodox churches.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Because the Vorlons have programmed the younger species to view them as holy beings

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

I wonder what I'd see if I perceived a Vorlon. Bill Nye the Science Guy?

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago (5 children)

Because he was drawn by Europeans

Just like Black/Yellow Jesus existing in those populations

You ask someone to draw a person, they will likely draw someone resembling people they see. If you tell an artist a thousand years ago “from the middle east” they will say what’s that

Then you just propagate those depictions

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago

Ethiopian Jesus looks like an east African.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

This is why deities, demons, spirits, angelic beings and so forth should be animalistic, aka furry. Have fun being racist about animals lmao.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

The “rightymemes” version of this is a kid asking Miles Morales why he’s brown and having text below that says

“Because, I'm a psychological tool. By creating the image of a brown Spider-Man this subliminally engrains the myth of brown superiority into the subconscious minds of white people. This makes you people more compliant with our brown dominance over your lives.”

The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.

It’s one thing to make an observation of how Jesus’s “image” has been adopted by different ethnicities, but when the official lore is that all humans are made in the image of God I think there are more productive ways to approach the topic of the societal impact of whitewashing.

I guess it’s the difference between saying “fictional white characters/heroes are bad because they reinforce white supremacy” vs asking “how foolish is it to look at a painting and try to judge which color of paint is ‘best’?”

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (4 children)

It's not only Jesus, but it's religious figures too. Muslims do the same to depictions of their saints, they should always look like "us".

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

There should be a black Jesus, just like there is a black Santa or a black Barbie.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

There is.

Of course search engines are all shitted up with the TV show and ai slop.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago
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