The thing is that it’s not even really “socialism” that the Chinese guy is is complaining about here. He’s complaining about the authoritarian aspects of the Mainland Chinese government, which is not the same as socialism. And the fact that the tankie can’t understand that is just… I don’t even know what to do with it at this point.
this post was submitted on 26 May 2025
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MeanwhileOnGrad
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The CCP's authoritarianism stems in part from their attempt to implement the Dictatorship of the Proletariat. The concept itself is pretty weird.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship_of_the_proletariat
But it was never that, from the instant Mao gained any real hold on power in China. He subsumed the entire movement, and fundamentally corrupted it, in much the same way that Stalin did.
you gotta understand something about tankies: they think that's a good thing
Oh, I know. It’s why I tilt at their windmills: to provide the counterpoint, in hopes that more susceptible people will see more than just the dogmatic Socialist Alternative hardliner viewpoint. Genuinely, I think those types do far more damage than they understand, especially in well-educated-median populaces such as Boston, when they bring their fucking Mao + Stalin silk screened Soviet flags to literally any fucking rally. If it pisses me off, as a person who’s very socialist and leaning even more so by the second, then I’m sure it’s alienating FAR more people than it’s calling to the banner.
for sure! that shit pisses me off. for a lot of people those symbols of their oppressors. all those say to them are "pick a genocidal freak and get in line" when what most of us are communicating is "what if we didn't with genocidal freaks all the time?"
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How can someone corrupt what was made to be corrupt lol? Lenin and Engle's empowerment of the state against the proletariat could have never ended any other way. It's the same brain rot that right wing Libertarians espouse, just from the other side.
Out of control government, out of control businesses. It's the same picture.
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Notably, the dictatorship of the proletariat isn't meant to be an actual dictatorship. Marx saw feudalism as the dictatorship of the aristocracy, capitalism as the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, so by analogy socialism (or the prelude to it, at least) would be the dictatorship of the proletariat—rule by the people for the people. It's not meant to be a dictatorship in the way we use that term today.
They brag about all the theory they've read. Even as they expose how bad their reading comprehension is. And they think it's a flex.
It's amazing that so many people who claim to be socialists miss that despite Marx stating it pretty clearly in one of his shortest and most accessible (and widely read) works.
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The dictatorship of the proletariat is just democracy. It's just the people getting to govern themselves instead of a select Elite few. There's really nothing weird about it, the weird thing is thinking that a small closed-knit group of authoritarian Elites can ever implement the dictatorship of the proletariat because by definition they are not the proletariat.
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the region where Hong Kong is
Can't even just say Hong Kong? Does that make us sound too independent or what?
It is kind of sad since Hong Kong hasn't really been independent for years
Mentioning Hong Kong means that China is weak
The socialist seapeoples are socialists too.
An actually communist society where everybody has equal influence would be a direct democracy.
Authoritarianism is the enemy of the communist utopia the creators of the ideology dreamed about.
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I don't like how they go around trying to convert people. They are honestly a lot like evangelicals.
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It's no wonder they suck at "converting" people, they know nothing about how socialism works. Nevermind the fact that they see it as "converting" rather than just having an open discussion, I can almost guarantee these people will immediately swing around the "no actually soviet union was based" or "nono you dont understand, china was mega based they needed to starve out the population" in a discussion once they lose their patience. If you ever get a chance to talk to these people irl, try to have a convo about a stateless society. I can speak from personal experience, when you bring that up, their mind goes blank, and they will start to sound less like a communist and more like a right-winger.
These are the people that give socialism a bad rep.
For them “socialism” is binary. Either it’s rampant authoritarian dystopia or modern capitalism.
They reject nuance and the varying levels of social policy that can be applied even to capitalist styles of governing.
I wonder why extremists hate liberals so much. They all talk of liberals with such disdain.
Its actually quite simple. Fascism is not a bug of capitalism, but a feature. If theres an economic crisis capitalism tends to swing against marginalised groups in order to stop the working class from revolting against their true oppressors. If you finally want to defeat fascism you have to defeat capitalism.
cause all non capitalist, especially countries have been the best countries in the world to live in, with best freedom indexes, most civil rights, happiest people and no mass murders, tortures, deaths rapes etc at all.
Just dont look at any real facts or history. Only consume propaganda from authoritarians.
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Capitalism in crisis leads to right wing populist fascism and it is the liberals via the ratchet effect that give rise to authoritarian control for the capitalist class. Just wait. The liberals are too busy making investments in AI to bother with our silly rights. And you'll see Trump will win a third term if he lives long enough. I mean, if you have framework, historical knowledge and you've paid attention long enough, you see the same reoccurring patterns. America is an imperialist nation and fascists are the useful idiots of empire. You know, we'll see how this goes. Eventually, you know, it'll get real enough for you to wake up and smell the coffee. If you're comfortable, you won't probably see it from... the tankies point of view. Oh, also. The United States supported Hitler during World War II. Tell me I'm wrong. https://ohdbks.overdrive.com/ohdbks-clermont/content/media/3778967[Hitlers American friends](https://ohdbks.overdrive.com/ohdbks-clermont/content/media/3778967)
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The tankie would easily be able to convince their friend if they said China is never going to convert to communism, but communism was tried by lots of indigenous tribes and it worked great.
Tankie is not an anarchist....
Well there's the problem!
It seems like they both agreed that there is no middle ground/compromise so they’ve got that going for them.
I cheerfully install kitchen cabinets made by cheerful Vietnamese communists and then I tell the homeowners that they have helped to support a Marxist regime that was once oppressed by capitalist Americans.
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