this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2023
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sh.itjust.works Main Community

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Matrix

founded 2 years ago
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Like many of you, I woke up this morning to discover that our instance, along with lemmy.world, had been unexpectedly added to the beehaw block list. Although this development initially caught me off guard, the administrators at beehaw made an announcement shedding light on their decision.

The primary concern raised was our instance's policy of open registration. Given my belief that the fediverse is still navigating its early stages, I believe that for it to mature, gain traction, and encourage adoption, it is crucial for instances to offer an uncomplicated and direct route for newcomers to join and participate. This was one of the reason I decided to launch this instance. However, I do acknowledge that this inclusive approach brings its unique challenges, including the potential for toxicity and trolls. Despite these hurdles, I maintain the conviction that our collective strength as a community can overcome these issues.

After this happened, the beehaw admins and I had a good chat about their decision. While our stances on registration policies might diverge, we realized that our ultimate goals are aligned: we both strive to foster communities that thrive in an atmosphere of safety and respect, where users can passionately engage in discussions and feel a sense of belonging.

Although the probability of an immediate reversal are slim given the current circumstances, I believe we have managed to identify common ground. It's evident that, even in separation, we can unite to contribute positively to the broader fediverse community.

In the coming weeks or months, we plan to collaborate with other lemmy instance administrators to suggest enhancements and modifications to the lemmy project. Primarily, our proposals will concentrate on devising tools and features that empower us, as instance administrators, to moderate our platforms effectively.

In the meantime, while I understand may not be ideal for everyone, users who choose to participate on the beehaw instance will be required to register a separate account on their instance.

Thank you all for continuing to make this community great!

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

I do think that the open sign up could become a problem in regard to bots. That being said, they could just as easily open their own instance.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Oh, so the person who posted their tiny penis on the feminism community actually admitted to it? Fascinating. They do know their post lasted like two minutes, right? I was more impressed with Beehaw's moderation team acting so fast than I was with their quick shot.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] -3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

@anthoniix pooky trolled some fiminatzis, beehaw had a midlifechrisis and then unfederated. that's it really. why that took a 5 page magnus opus i don't know.

@TheDude @magic

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

wait is that what happened? beehaw defederated over one user/post?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

There would have been more and there were probably more such posts. These kind of safe spaces inevitably attract trolls looking for the wrong kind of attention.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yup that's probably the case. But I'm a bit surprised if they were that quick and drastic over a single post. The way they made it sound was as if there was a ton of people engaging in a way they didn't approve. not that there was just one troll.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I find their reaction understandable. In my experience, even one bad post can cause dramatic shifts in user demographics, so if you don’t take a heavy-handed approach it can really end up having lasting negative effects on the server.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

Yeah it's understandable given their goal. I'm just surprised is all.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

Hey @[email protected]! I think we may be on the same side of the fence with a lot of this. I just got my server online, but I'm self hosting with a couple old Dell R720xds and R730xds so I've got you matched in the hardware department at least :-)

Hopefully in this for the long haul and want to help collaborate with other communities and contribute to the development as much as I'm able.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

That announcement from beehaw was how I found and subscribed to this instance lol

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think flexible federation is likely a good thing, and means we can have separate meta-communities with different basic attitudes, so people can be in the kind of spaces they want. My first experience of the fediverse was mastodon, and while the format wasn't really my thing, I loved the amount of individual control it gave users over what they could see.

I wonder if there could be some kind of system to make this simpler, chunkier and less-drama, though.

What if there were:

  • different individual policies that instances could subscribe to
  • coalitions based on adoption of specific policy bundles, and allow-lists based on them.
  • coalition-curated deny-lists of non-compliant instances.

A little bit Schengen area, a little bit NATO.

Ferinstance I can see some instances only wanting to talk to others with curated signup, curated community-creation, no-NSFW, specific political leanings etc - and I can see some instances not wanting those things. Some people may want very safe spaces, others may want in-your-face free speech. Both are reasonable (imho), and there's no reason both sides can't have what they want, without it having to be a big deal.

Possibly this could be layered, I haven't worked out the mechanics yet - but even if you have groups around rules ABCDE, AB, ACE, BCD, etc - it would still help set and stabilise people's expectations, and help them reach consensus, preferably with a bigger granularity than single servers - and reduce the number of nasty surprises down the track.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't like the idea of coalitions at all. To me it feels like the coalitions would become very "us vs them", i.e. you must defederate all instances that allow any topic in this list or we will defederate you. It leaves no neutral ground, creates echo chambers, and deepens the political divide that plagues our society.

IMO it's better if

  1. Lemmy allows individual users to block all communities from an instance or all users from an instance, sort of like defederation but per-user.
  2. Instances have the rule that "when you interact with other instances/communities, you must follow all their rules, or we will suspend your cross-instance posting rights for X days".

Then instances can act like neutral infrastructure/identity providers and each user can decide exactly how they want to interact with the fediverse without causing fragmentation.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 years ago

Then you will need to follow users around other places that they interact. You just get more work creep at the end of it all.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Has there been a problem with bad actors on this server yet? I certainly haven't noticed any.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

There has been an individual who flamed beehaw via our server. It happened fast and while we can moderate what this user does locally, we cannot moderate on other instances... as others have stated, there is not much moderation granularity, yet.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

Ohhhhh, that was an interesting nugget of information that I didn't previously understand. Thank you for sharing that.

So, the only way to keep a bad actor registered in your instance from flaming in another one would be to revoke their account completely, then?

Other servers probably need to be able to block individual users from posting anywhere on their instance if we don't want to end up as mostly disfederated, isolated servers.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I made an account here as a beehaw user and I'm glad that the two mod teams are in discussion. Servers have the right to cordon off their users, but I'd hate to miss out on the content. I feel mixed on the decision, as is represented by my dual accounts.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (4 children)

The Beehaw moderator just release an update that is interesting and very good-willed. But I'm confused. I had no problem commenting in Nature and Gardening which is on the Beehaw instance. I thought this wasn't possible as a sh.itjust.works user?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It is possible, but Beehaw users won't see your comment (I may be wrong, this is still a bit complicated for me as well).

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 years ago

Just a quick idea I had, and this may have been suggested before and maybe be untenable. But... Could communities be made invite/approval only as well as instances?

For example, on beehaw they want to ensure that everyone posting to their communities have been vetted in some way. So could have all the communities not allow posts by who haven't agreed to beehaw's "content policy"? Either by naturally having an account on beehaw, or by submitting a request to a moderator of the community.

Would allow people on other instances to see and follow those posts (but not post themselves, unless they go through beehaw's approval process), and beehaw people to go and interact with other communities on other instances.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I'm disappointed that we have to suffer because of a few bad apples but I can understand the situation. We'll all have to do our part to report and remove these trash brain bigots from out instance. I really enjoy the laid back atmosphere of this instance but it is acutely vulnerable to trolls as evidenced by that shithead.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

Honestly, I'll take a risk of trolls over losing the atmosphere here any day. Don't really need to see content from instances that are bothered enough to defederate anyways, there's plenty of stuff here and on lemmy.world and other communities we're federated to.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You don't have to suffer. Everything posted on beehaw will be reposted elsewhere, that's just the nature of the internet. And if you really want to interact with beehaw, just go make another free account over there.

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