[Outdated, please look at pinned post] Casual Conversation

Of course.

I'm glad that no one has said no!

As long as it is kept to terminally ill people. Here in Canada, it's being offered to people with life long health issues (Chronic pain etc.) But for us the slippery slope is it has been offered to people with mental health issues as well. I can't verify if it is an officially sanctioned offering, but people have come forward with stories of it being offered to them.

We all know things won't get better anytime soon.

Hope yall find what peace you can in this life.

We already have it in the Netherlands and I think it is a good thing. I know several people who chose for assisted dying when they were terminal and I think it protected them from a lot of unnecessary suffering.

There are some laws in place to prevent abuse. For example, there is a second, independent doctor assessing the situation to make sure conditions are really met and that someone is really terminal and deciding this from their own free will. The patient should be able to reconfirm that they really want to get euthanised before it happens. I think this is a good thing, but sometimes it is difficult when people with dementia clearly have stated and written down officially that they want assisted dying in certain circumstances, but they are not able to reconfirm because they lost their ability to understand.

In some cases you can have assisted dying when you suffer psychologically without any outlook of improvement (i.e. you have tried all treatments etc). However, there are waiting lists for those, which are quite long. My sister was on such a waiting list because she had anorexia. However, she died from starvation before she could be assessed. I am still a bit in doubt whether it would have been a good idea for her to get assisted dying. I still was hoping and thinking that there could be ways for her to get better.

Maybe the doctor assessing whether she would be approved for this would have thought the same, maybe not. She died anyway, so maybe I was wrong. In any case, I am not completely against euthanasia in case of psychological illness, as people can suffer from that equally as from physical ailments. However, you should be extremely careful and it should be extremely clear that there is no other solution at all anymore.

It does exist here.

I opposed its legalization... but supported its existence in practice. In fact, I need its existence... Medical technology has created a lot of complicated situations because we have the ability to keep people alive to carry on in suffering even when there is no hope of recovery.

It is the unspoken duty of a modern doctor to deliver a coup de grace when this point has been reached - I think even without asking permission. The old Greek or Mexican lady with a cross around her neck and the Priest coming to visit her and deliver communion can never assent to be euthanized.... She needs her doctor to read the situation and to send her off when recovery is impossible and only suffering remains.

When we make it a process that requires her consent & signature, we deny her a peaceful death...

And, when we legalize it, we open the door to some upsetting things, like the euthanization of people for merely mental health conditions. There's something profoundly ugly & disturbing about someone in their 20s being put to death by a doctor for their mental anguish. Yes, mental suffering is very real, and it should absolutely be addressed... But, just like in the case of prostitution, it is just not something the state can set a moral precedent of approving of it when it happens.

We have that in Canada. I think dying with dignity is important and why suffer in agony when you can plan it out if you're terminally ill?

But it made Canada show how poor its social supports are for this guy: https://ottawa.citynews.ca/2022/10/14/ontario-man-applying-for-medically-assisted-death-as-alternative-to-being-homeless-5953116/

When this news broke everyone came out of the woodwork to help him and he is no longer applying for MAID.

My coworker's husband has end stage COPD and has been in and out of hospital a lot lately. She says she felt pushed for him to accept MAID, but they didn't and he is doing somewhat better now. It's temporary obviously but I also understand not wanting to lose him. There have been other stories where some people feel the decision was made irresponsibly, this is a good article about it: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/06/22/the-death-treatment

I don't know what I think about MAID for mental health conditions. Not that I don't think they are debilitating, but I wonder how sound of mind someone who is suffering so much is in. I really don't know the answer to that.

it also affects the life insurance industry. have a terminal illness with a couple months of agony left? if you end it early, they won't pay out.

1000% yes

No, for several reasons.

Death is final. There is no coming back from it.

A cure, or at least an effective treatment, might be just around the corner. HIV used to be a death sentence; it isn't any more (and from what I understand, carriers can now have unprotected sex without passing it on). I wonder how much medical research into treating HIV wouldn't have been possible without sufferers to try out potential treatments. Maybe it would still be a death sentence today if assisted suicide had allowed people to escape it.

There is no way to be 100% certain someone isn't being pressured to die. If they answer all the questions correctly, that only shows they know the right answers; it doesn't show they are being truthful.

Justifying assisted suicide on the basis of the worst cases is not sufficient. There will always be worst cases. Let's say we define a limited set of the worst cases; those are now effectively solved and everything else jumps up a level. There is now a new set of worst cases. How long before someone catching the common cold gets put to death? You may say this is ridiculous but the worst case justification means that the cold WILL eventually rise to the top, and there WILL be arguments like "giving evolution a helping hand", or "for the benefit of the species", and as we will by then be routinely applying AS there'll only be a low bar to jump.

If palliative care isn't producing sufficient quality of life, we can put people into a medically induced coma (IANAD so there may be good reasons we can't, but idk). There they stay until (a) a cure or treatment is available, or (b) they die naturally anyway.

Obviously this needs sensible public healthcare in place. Where medical treatment is expensive and life is cheap, this won't work. I'm in the UK where healthcare is provided by the state and we have the luxury of considering life to be priceless.

For those who say we euthanise animals - well society in general doesn't want to pay for their healthcare and doesn't consider their lives to be infinitely precious. Also there is the question of how much they understand what is happening to them; maybe the terror of being hooked up to a machine would make their QOL effectively non-existent anyway.

No. It should never be legal. You will see an increase in people trying to get power of attorney over their spouse, or relative, so that they can advocate for assisted death, when that might not be what the patient actually wants. I don’t want to see abusive people having the power to legally murder other people.