As I said earlier, they are not doing the exact same business. Feel free to go back earlier in the thread!
Cowbee
joined 1 year ago
China builds up countries it deals with, the West keeps them underdeveloped and over-exploited. I already showed how that is, so I will not copy and paste what I already did.
Communism isn't just providing everything for everyone no matter what. Overpopulation is a problem any economic system will have to deal with, and that's not something that has hard binary boundaries.
No, they are not at all the same, and I explained why already. To put it another way, the average Chinese person lives off of far more Chinese labor, while the average person in the West lives off of far more Global South labor.
The actions aren't the same, though, and I explained and elaborated on why. You never engaged with it, but glossed over it.
It feels like you glossed over that I just said trade isn't Capitalism. Your point relied on "there being no ethical consumption under Capitalism," but that original analysis has nothing to do with the ideology of those producing goods, nor with trade. Trade is a mechanism employed by both Capitalist and Socialist systems, and isn't inherently exploitative.
You need to do more investigation than just that.
Secondly, trade is not Capitalism. Capitalism is not trade. When people speak of that, it's because consumption within a Capitalist framework will always go to the bourgeoisie and usually support Imperialism overseas, but that isn't an inherent quality of trade.
Sure? I read theory but that's not my job.
I appreciate it! 🫡
I said it elsewhere, but I do think now is an excellent time for agitation and developing clear lines.
Fair enough, my wording implied the reforms of Deng Xiaoping were painless and not without their drawbacks. Certainly, some pain and misery would have come, but not nearly to the extent that the dissolution of the Soviet system entirely has wrought upon Eastern Europe and its connected trading partners in Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, the DPRK, etc.
You can just stop arguing, because all you've done thus far is make me appear more correct thanks to you dodging my arguments and personally insulting me. Seriously, if you want to delegitimize me, just downvote me and don't engage, I have consistently provided more sources and demonstrated more knowledge of what we are talking about, so every time you avoid that, it rhetorically strengthens my own arguments. I'm only telling you this because pointing it out makes it even more apparent for onlookers, especially when you call me a "mongrel."
To start, your argument is self-defeating. I explained how Public Ownership is the principle aspect of the PRC's economy, and showed how large firms and key industries are firmly in the public sector. You contradict Marx and call that "Capitalism," which I already showcased earlier as well, with the quotes on gradually appropriating property in the hands of the State.
Next, your opinion on markets contradicts Marx's. Your argument is about the PRC not following Marx, not whether or not they follow your opinion. Your only source on the CPC's lack of dedication to continuing the same process of increasing the productive forces and maintaining public ownership of large firms and key industries? Your word. That's it, really, just your vibe.
Next, you make the unbacked claim that the CPC is a "small elite" that makes a fuck ton of money. Also false, you can check the sources I included earlier, as well as trying to describe a party with 96 million members as "a small elite." Quite silly, considering the number of billionaires in the PRC is shrinking as the economy grows and purchasing power of the working class is steadily rising.
Next, you just say not approving of the CPC will get you shot. This is silly, and not backed by the Harvard study I linked earlier:
Although state censorship and propaganda are widespread in China, these findings highlight that citizen perceptions of governmental performance respond most to real, measurable changes in individuals’ material well-being. Satisfaction and support must be consistently reinforced. As a result, the data point to specific areas in which citizen satisfaction could decline in today’s era of slowing economic growth and continued environmental degradation.
Or the graphics proving this to be the case:
The western pollsters freely admited that propaganda exists within China, but found most importantly that public opinion was shaped most by the fact that China keeps improving their conditions. It's that simple. Nazi Germany dramatically repressed the people and brutally lowered conditions. This isn't a serious argument.
I do find it funny that you admit that I'm well-sourced, but provide none of your own and then personally insult me, rather than address my arguments. More legitimacy for my own arguments for free, I guess? Thanks!
Sorry to inform you, but the Black Book of Communism was debunked long ago, from including Nazis killed during World War II as "victims of Communism" to literally making up numbers to get to 100 million dead to being outright disproven once the Soviet Archives were opened up.
More personal insults, more free legitimacy. No, I'll keep this going for as long as you help me show others here why anticommunism is founded on a rejection of facts and an adherance to the almighty "because I said so."
"Without Revolutionary theory, there can be no Revolutionary Movement."
— Vladimir Lenin, What is to be Done? | Audiobook
It's time to read theory, comrades! As Lenin says, "Despair is typical of those who do not understand the causes of evil, see no way out, and are incapable of struggle." Marxism-Leninism is broken into 3 major components, as noted by Lenin in his pamphlet The Three Sources and Three Component Parts of Marxism: | Audiobook
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Dialectical and Historical Materialism
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Critique of Capitalism along the lines of Marx's Law of Value
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Advocacy for Revolutionary and Scientific Socialism
As such, I created the following list to take you from no knowledge whatsoever of Leftist theory, and leave you with a strong understanding of the critical fundamentals of Marxism-Leninism in an order that builds up as you read. Let's get started!
Section I: Getting Started
What the heck is Communism, anyways? For that matter, what is fascism?
- Friedrich Engels' Principles of Communism | Audiobook
The FAQ of Communism, written by the Luigi of the Marx & Engels duo. Quick to read, and easy to reference, this is the perfect start to your journey.
- Michael Parenti's Blackshirts and Reds | Audiobook
Parenti's characteristic wit is on full display in this historical contextualization and analysis of fascism and Communism. Line after line, Parenti debunks anti-Communist myths. This is also an excellent time to watch the famous "Yellow Parenti" speech.
Section II: Historical and Dialectical Materialism
Ugh, philosophy? Really? YES!
- Georges Politzer's Elementary Principles of Philosophy | Audiobook
By understanding Dialectical and Historical Materialism first, you make it easier to understand the rest of Marxism-Leninism. Don't be intimidated!
- Friedrich Engels' Socialism: Utopian and Scientific | Audiobook
Engels introduces Scientific Socialism, explaining how Capitalism itself prepares the conditions for public ownership and planning by centralizing itself into monopolist syndicates and cartels.
Section III: Political Economy
That's right, it's time for the Law of Value and a deep-dive into Imperialism. If we are to defeat Capitalism, we must learn it's mechanisms, tendencies, contradictions, and laws.
- Karl Marx's Wage Labor and Capital | Audiobook & Wages, Price and Profit | Audiobook
Best taken as a pair, these essays simplify the most important parts of the Law of Value.
- Vladimir Lenin's Imperialism, The Highest Stage of Capitalism | Audiobook
The era of Imperialism, which as the primary contradiction cascades downward into all manner of related secondary contradictions.
Section IV: Revolutionary and Scientific Socialism
Can we defeat Capitalism at the ballot box? What about just defeating fascism? What about the role of the state?
- Rosa Luxemburg's Reform or Revolution | Audiobook
If Marxists believed reforming Capitalist society was possible, we would be the first in line for it. Sadly, it isn't.
- Vladimir Lenin's The State and Revolution | Audiobook
Further analyzes the necessity of Revolution and introduces the economic basis for the withering away of the State.
Section V: National Liberation, De-colonialism, and Solidarity
The revolution will not be fought by individuals, but by an intersectional, international working class movement. Solidarity allows different marginalized groups to work together in collective interest, unifying into a single broad movement. Marxists support the Right of Self-Determination for all peoples and support National Liberation movements against Imperialism.
- Vikky Storm & Eme Flores' The Gender Accelerationist Manifesto | (No Audiobook yet)
Breaks down misogyny, and queerphobia, as well as how to move beyond the base subject of "gender" from a Historical Materialist perspective.
- Leslie Feinberg's Lavender & Red | Audiobook
When different social groups fight for liberation together along intersectional lines, they are emboldened and empowered ever-further.
- Frantz Fanon's The Wretched of the Earth | Audiobook & Paulo Freire's Pedagogy of the Oppressed | Audiobook
De-colonialism is essential to Marxism. Without having a strong, de-colonial, internationalist stance, we have no path to victory nor justice. These books are best taken as a pair, read in quick succession.
Section VI: Putting it into Practice!
It's not enough to endlessly read, you must put theory to practice. That is how you can improve yourself and the movements you support. Touch grass!
- Mao Tse-Tung's On Practice & On Contradiction | Audiobook
Mao wrote simply and directly to peasant soldiers during the Revolutionary War in China. This pair of essays equip the reader to apply the analytical tools of Dialectical Materialism to their every day practice.
- Vladimir Lenin's "Left-Wing" Communism, an Infantile Disorder | Audiobook
Common among new leftists is dogmatism over pragmatism. Everyone wants perfection, but dogmatic "left" anti-Communists let perfection become the enemy of progress.
- Liu Shaoqi's How to be a Good Communist | Audiobook
Organizing is a skill. If we are to be successful, we must work to better ourselves.
Congratulations, you completed your introductory reading course!
With your new understanding and knowledge of Marxism-Leninism, here is a mini What is to be Done? of your own to follow, and take with you as practical advice.
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Get organized. The Party for Socialism and Liberation, Freedom Road Socialist Organization, Red Star Caucus, and Marxist Unity Group all organize year round, every year, because the battle for progress is a constant struggle. See if there is a chapter near you, or start one!
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Read theory. Don't think that you are done now! Just because you have the basics, doesn't mean you know more than you do. If you have not investigated a subject, don't speak on it!
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Aggressively combat white supremacy, misogyny, queerphobia, and other attacks on marginalized communities. Cede no ground, let nobody go forgotten.
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Be industrious, and self-sufficient. Take up gardening, home repair, tinkering. It is through practice that you elevate your knowledge.
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Learn self-defense. Get armed, if practical. Be ready to protect yourself and others.
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Be persistent. If you feel like a single water droplet against a mountain, think of canyons and valleys. With consistency, every rock, boulder, mountain, can be drilled through with nothing but water droplets.
"Everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent."
— Mao Tse-Tung
My point has never been that their actions are the same. You boiled down complex relations to simple "trade," when the complexities and directions make it entirely different in outcome. That's like saying a surgeon and a knife-murderer are the same, because they both cut people.