SaltSong

And we provide Israel weapons to bomb Gaza.

That doesn't always work.

We used to have an agreement, didn't we? What happened to it?

Oh. Right.

Are they running out of people to murder in Gaza? Or do they just need someone to fight back, so they can look oppressed?

There was the whole thing in Guantanamo Bay. And the awful treatment of civilians in Afghanistan. And in Iraq. And we can't forget the Vietnam war.

I think the guy you're talking to is a duck, but he's not all wrong.

Just because Trump isn't performing his duty doesn't mean that he doesn't have a duty.

There was a scene involving some vey angry, but peaceful protesters surrounding a government building. A small team of police was ordered into the crowd. Not to attack, just to patrol, to open a little corridor so people could pass. But that was six guys in riot gear pushing their way through the people.

Even in the best possible circumstances, that's gonna cause a little trouble, and these were not the best possible circumstances. Fruit was thrown. Maybe a bottle or two. The police are tense. The people are tense.

And a government agent, working for the guy who ordered the cops out there, shot one of them. The cops reacted defensively, and struck at the crowd, trying to get to safety. The crowd fought back. Things quickly got out of hand.

And the stormtroopers were standing by, waiting for the word.

It was a setup. An incident was forced to happen. It might have happened even without the sniper. Just force the police into the crowd, and sooner or later, someone will do something stupid.

On the same way, the NG troops might be deliberately pressed into a position where they legitimately think they are defending themselves, but no single order will seem like "crossing the line" to them. Stand here. Hold the line. Push the crowd out of this area.

I hope it doesn't happen. But the metaphor of boiling the frog is apt.

But I think there is a moral imperative that says “do not obey immoral orders”

Is it immoral to get on a plane, and go sleep on the floor somewhere?

Again, it's one thing to expect them to reject orders they know are illegal, such as firing on civilians. It's another thing entirely to expect them to reject orders the legality of which may be a supreme court case next week.

It’s not the military’s duty to protect protestors.

The path of enlistment starts like this:

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same

Peaceful protest is our constitutional right.

This isn’t complicated. You either choose to obey an illegal order and threaten/attack other American citizens, or you don’t.

Would you be willing to risk ten years in prison that a military judge will agree that an order to go stand somewhere is illegal?

As much as i hate what Trump is doing, I don't expect any enlisted man to refuse orders to go somewhere. The legality of that order is debatable, but following it does not cause any immediate harm. It's not a good risk to take.

Refusal to follow orders will come when the order is so clearly illegal that there can be no question, and when following that order is something that can't be undone. An order to fire into the crowd, for example.

Of course, no such order will be given. I assume we have all seen Andor, yes?