this post was submitted on 18 Feb 2025
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Ukraine
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He undercuts his own point by not acknowledging the reality of the situation. It is a mistake not to mention the crucial role NATO has played in Ukraine's defense.
They stopped the Russian advance on their own, long before any shipments of weapons arrived.
The fact they've been able to hold out this long against a numerically superior foe is indeed due to massive support from other countries. But if they hadn't held the line in the beginning, alone, there wouldn't have been anyone to support.
I won't ever look down on them. They spilled the blood and cried the tears. All we did was throw them a bunch of surplus shit we didn't need anymore, so that our MIC can sell us newer shit.
I'm not in any way trying to "look down on" Ukraine. I am criticizing a statement because I believe it wasn't an effective way to make an argument.
Yes, you are trying to look down on Ukraine by focusing so hard on material suppllies over human lives.
Don't tell me what I'm trying to do. This is ridiculous. You can say it seemed like that's what I was trying to do, or that you misunderstood me. But respectfully, fuck off with that.
I know what I meant and what I said. Zelensky did not make an effective argument. That's where the conversation ends. No looking down on anyone.
I'm tired of not being able to voice even the slightest bit of a disagreement with zelensky just because his country was invaded.
Every single time people just assume I'm anti Ukraine, because they can't fathom the idea I would criticize something that I overall agree with. Its fucking ridiculous.
Keep digging that hole!
I'd say Ukraine has played a far greater role in Ukraine's defense. Not to mention that Ukraine is body-blocking Russia from NATO countries while doing so. Putin won't stop in Ukraine and they fucking know it.
Regardless, Ukraine wouldn't still exist in the form it does now without NATO's support. That is a simple fact, it cannot be argued. My point has nothing to do with what Ukraine has or hasn't done, or what NATO should or should not be doing.
Literally all I have said is that Zelensky did not describe the situation well. Im not even trying to use this as an indicator of his character or intelligence as a leader. This isn't a hot take, it really doesn't deserve this much discussion.
Just to be clear then, it was a NATO country, with NATO troops that stopped Russia? Because he described it as 'Ukraine's army that stopped Russia--not a NATO country, not NATO troops, but our people and army."
The reality that... Ukrainian troops and the Ukrainian army are fighting Russia, who will immediately attack NATO countries if they beat Ukraine? If you believe Putin that they'll stop in Ukraine I have a bridge I think you'll love, $99.99. And if you think NATO doesn't know that and isn't using Ukraine as a buffer, I'll throw in a nice little island for $49.99.
He said ONLY our people and our army. That is incorrect. Russia was stopped by the Ukrainian people using equipment and money given to them by NATO countries. That is the reality he did not acknowledge.
And again, I never said anything about what NATO should or should not be doing. That is a different conversation entirely.