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Like:
People should be allowed to exist
Social programs aren't communism
The system isn't working for the people
Edit:
I've changed my mind on this.
Let the DNC go full MAGA and when they lose, because they will lose, they get the heat and we can eject them forever. At least sit them in a corner.
Progressives, you fight if you want but I don't believe the elections will be fair so it's a win win for you.
The blue MAGA are here on Lemmy and I ran into couple of them. They keep shouting to the rooftops that the Democratic party did nothing wrong and berate Trump voters as stupid and ignorant. But they are tone deaf when you point out that the Democratic party is not willing to run on the platform on Medicare-for-all, build more social housing and increase federal minimum wage (and ditch Israel), which made the party unappealing and lose consistently. Basically, blue MAGA don't want to go left, because even if they are socially progressive on issues, they benefit from wealth inequality because they themselves are affluent in spite of being socially progressive.
Edit: yep, the blue MAGA came out of the woodwork. They think Medicare for all, affordable housing, and increasing minimum wage are red fascism.
Yeah I don't believe you. People aren't saying that. That is you taking the liberty of recharacterizing their thoughts.
im not even from the US and i see this shit constantly on Lemmy
I have been accused of loving Democrats for saying things like "what are Democrats supposed to do about voters who would let trump win?" It's as though nuance was outlawed and people cannot understand that a problem can have multiple causes.
And yes I've heard all that about being inspiring. The reality is that educated people would've made very different voting choices. Americans are incredibly ignorant. Democrats can't hypnotize people into not being idiots
I find the concept of "voters were just to dumb, cant do anything about that" to be quite representative of what is wrong with the party. It is elitist, it is factually false and it is deeply undemocratic.
Yes I'm aware that people think nonvoters are helpless and then somehow find that better than being dumb
except education levels are tied to voting bloc amid republicans attacking education
so that cam be true and the democratic party be shit at the same time
What Democrats are supposed to do is sell those voters on a platform of meaningful change that addresses their fears and concerns. It's a candidate's job to win voters over to their side, and if they can't do that, you have to actually ask questions about what went wrong and learn lessons from it instead of throwing your hands up and declaring it's everyone else's fault but the DNC's. Otherwise that attitude is what will lead to doing the exact same thing in 2028 and getting the same results.
There are plenty of them if you lurk long enough. They will harp "vote blue, no matter who" and repeating the meme "leopards ate your face". The litmus test is to mention that Democrats did not go left enough which is why people voted for Trump (who promised the always appealing tax cuts amidst the growing inequality and radical reshoring of companies), and blue MAGA will bury their heads in the sand and keep calling Latinos, black folks and white working class and others who are working three jobs, living pay check to paycheck, and can't afford to pay for medical insurance as ignorant, racist, misogynists, Uncle Toms, etc.
Sure it was stupid to vote Trump, but it was more stupid of Democrats to lose to an orange man by not appealing and refusing to acknowledge those who have economic anxieties brought by mismanaged globalisation. It would have been an easy victory, but blue MAGA and DNC do not want to alienate the same donors that fund the Republicans (I mean, look at the screenshot where it says to court big donors instead).
Average red fascist preferring literal fascists to the dreaded Shitlibs(tm)
You have it the other way around. It is the Shitlibs(tm) preferring literal fascists by not going left enough on common sense policies that the rest of other developed countries take for granted. By not running on popular policies, Shitlibs are tacitly allowing literal fascists to take power. Instead, all the Shitlibs/blue MAGA say is "I am not my opponent. And you will be happy with our breadcrumb policies or the other guy wins! (But we don't care, we get paid by our corporate donors regardless)"
"They didn't go far left enough; therefore, the smarter choice was to vote for the furthest right option available."
👏
Tell me more about these popular policies. Or rather, tell me more about their popularity in the US electorate.
They didn't offer any meaningful change at a time when voters were upset with the status quo, therefore the voters chose a fascist who was offering something rather than nothing.
At the end of the day, we lost. And we have to talk about why we lost if we want to learn any lessons next time.
Doesn't make it a smart fucking choice. If anything, context makes it stupider.
And unfortunately, 'policy wasn't left enough' isn't the answer.
Dem policy should move leftward, mind you. But not because it'll win us votes. Policy is of marginal importance to everyone save a handful of terminally educated political junkies like us. Dem policy should move leftward because left policy will be better for the country and move the country itself left in the long-term.
Elections, though? We have to win those using different criteria than "What's good for the country."
Or at least, we did. God knows if we'll have meaningful elections again at this point.
So we agree that the DNC did not make a smart choice?
Oh yeah, the DNC made many incredibly stupid choices. Choices both specific to this last election, and more long-term as part of a general pattern of ineptness, mediocrity, and complacency. In any just world, probably a good 90% of them would be out of their jobs, and their names blackened forever as the nitwits who lost American democracy.
Just at the end of the day, the fascist fuckwit should not have been regarded by anyone with more than an ounce of gray matter in their head as an acceptable alternative.
Well the voters did pick the fascist fuckwit, and if we don't want that to happen again then we have to have a deeper conversation, rather than terminating that conversation with the unhelpful observation "voters bad."
Because the point here should be to ask real questions about what we're gonna do differently next time. Deflecting away from our candidates' failures is an attitude that leads to doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Not trying to deflect, but to remind everyone that the failures of the candidate and party are largely not policy-based. "We should have just gone left!" and other easy answers are tempting, but like Bernie and Corbyn, will not bring victory in and of themselves. And the enthusiasm for those answers is often enough to drown out any potential sober analysis, especially in a community as left-leaning as Lemmy.
This user's recent post is a pretty good indicator of how little they understand
Edit: downvote all you want, binary thinkers
You couldn't be more transparent if you tried
I appreciate you clearing up your AgEnDa
Of course Third Way and neoliberals still think we're in pre-recession era when appealing to moderates still work in the face of growing wealth inequality. If your way is the only way, why keep losing?
On its face, your idea falls apart on even the slightest inspection. This thread is full of that and we don't need to pretend everyone calling you out needs to rehash it
Which party lost twice and will only keep losing?
Scroll up and down. You can find plenty of well worded arguments that dash yours to pieces. I'm not spending more of my mental health on you.
Right, let me put it another way. If Dem strategy works, why are they losing?
"The definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results." No wonder mental health is affected and keep losing because blue MAGA keep banging their heads to the wall for the past 10 years.
Third way had gone its way. It is time to move over.
"26 replies" but I cant see any of them because I have those kinds of idiots blocked
I see that you have more experience of them than I do.
Turns out that the prominent posters, pugje$u$, is one of the blue MAGA.
Oh cool, those are winning issues in the Dem primaries, right?
So you are indeed one of those.
It is as if Bernie, a more popular candidate, wasn't deliberately sidelined. It is as if Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, another popular politician, wasn't selected to head the Oversight committee and chose instead a geriatric, monied politician. It is
And finally, ask yourself, is not running on those popular platforms gave Democrats the win in elections? Or are you going to call people dumb? Who is really the dumb one for losing against annoying orange?
"BlueMAGA is when you look at a fascist-voting electorate and don't see The Indomitable Rise Of The Proletariat(tm) in a fascist electoral victory"
More popular as measured by...?
That has nothing to do with Dem primaries or the electorate, man.
No. If it was, why would Bernie not have won the Dem primaries? If these positions were so overwhelmingly popular when expressed by politicians and not as abstracts, why would Bernie, an undeniably charismatic, fucking spotless politician with years of experience and a sharp wit, lose to Clinton, and then Biden?
I didn't realize intelligence was measured in votes. I guess I have to concede that your position is correct - by that measure, fascism is smart, while all the losers are dumb. Like the Dems. And the PSL.
After all, if they were smart, they would've won, right?
I'm a two-time Bernie voter. If there was a real primary in '24, I probably would've been a three-time Bernie voter. I marched for him back when my leg was good. I donated. I hammered on doors.
People are not as left as you think they fucking are.
Your comment is strange and contradictory, which I have suspicion of on what your trying to do. But I will bite.
Dem primaries-- much of whom are full of blue MAGA and rigged by DNC elites-- selecting a non-popular candidate who will do the bidding of corporate donors will not win the actual election. Bernie is popular when polled on national level (by the way, in a hypothetical election between Trump and Bernie, showed the latter would be way ahead). But if polled among the elites and blue MAGA such as yourself? Of course he is not popular.
Rigged how?
Okay, so it should have been easy for him to get out the vote in the primaries, right?
I literally pointed out that I'm a Bernie supporter. Did you forget to read the comment before replying or something?
Would you like to remind me what Bernie's weakest demographics were in the Dem primaries, in 2016 and 2020?
Anyone who genuinely support Sanders would not be begging the questions and pretending not to know how the DNC deliberately sidelined him; nor not know how popular his policies are when polled among Americans, which the polls are easily searched on the Internet if one types how popular a given Bernie Sanders or the general progressive proposals are.
You are not really fooling anyone feigning to be Bernie supporter but an actual DNC sock puppet. It is not my problem though, it is the Democratic party who will keep losing (not that they care, they mind more not alienating their rich donors that also fund the Republicans).
Lord.
When I read this whole chain, what I really want to know is what you think of convention superdelegates? I think pretty much every Sanders supporter thinks he was forced out by the establishment via superdelegates.
Is there any proof of this?
Edit: So, no proof indeed, just downvotes? Lol, alright.