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French scientist denied US entry after phone messages critical of Trump found
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 19 Mar 2025
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There's no mention in the article if this search was voluntary, or not.
Edit: For the downvoters, please point out where I was wrong; I'd honestly really like to know if it was voluntary or not.
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It's "voluntary" in the sense that either you allow it or you don't get into the country.
That's forced. Since when was it a thing?
Since the PATRIOT Act at least, but possibly since Reagan's Executive Order 12333.
Looks like there is also a court case from 1977 that is related.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception
Every border patrol agent within 100 miles of any US border has this authority and has for a looooong fucking time.
It's honestly a little shocking this isn't more well known.
A 2-1 circuit split means that the 2 currently prevails, thus making border searching of electronics illegal unless you're within the 11th's jurisdiction (Florida, Georgia, Alabama, while the guy was arrested traveling to a Texas conference), no?
I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and say they're ignoring whatever court precedent actually exists at this point anyway.
Also, a phrase I've heard a lot "you can beat the charge but you can't beat the ride." Meaning, like Luigi Mangione, you can argue in court about illegal seizures after it has already happened. I'm guessing most border patrol agents just plan on losing court cases like this, because they know, in the moment, they can get away with it.
I mean they fucking tortured a white European green card holder recently.
What is this news? I haven't heard of that yet.
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2025-03-14/green-card-holder-from-new-hampshire-interrogated-at-logan-airport-detained
This is fucking outrageous, what the fuck...
My understanding is that any protections like that only apply to citizens while at the border and not foreigners looking to travel.
It's not like the Bill of Rights doesn't apply to people with just visas either.
Since, like the moment I learned about the US Borders.
It's always been a thing, you see a lot of these in r/privacy and now c/pricacy
Only US Citizens can refuse the search and still enter* but their devices could still be confiscated.
*for now
I have a quote above. As SF said, agents who do that would be violating court rulings.
Was that explicitly said to him? Did they tell him that if he refused the inspection that he would be denied entry?
BTW, what you described is a mandatory inspection.
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i just downvoted because everyone else was doing it. I actually like your comment
that's just silly. you don't have to press a button
well its better than the button pressing me
I just upvoted because everyone else wasn't. I actually don't like your comment.
what a rebel
Consent in a situation like this is difficult to establish, to the point of it being pointless. Your comment implies to me that you think if the person said "OK" to a search request then whatever happened next is their own fault.
Consider just the situation where you're in the immigration line and two uniformed officers walk up to you and say, "please come with us." If you go with them, is that voluntary? If you say "yes" I just think "voluntary" doesn't hold much meaning. What happens if you don't volunteer to go with them? Surely, they say, "come with us now or you'll be arrested." And if you don't volunteer at that point, they'll physically restrain you and take you away.
Since most people are able to understand the subtext of the situation, they're able to tell that, "please come with us" actually means "you are required to come with us now. You may either walk of your own accord, or we will take you captive and punish you beyond whatever we initially intended." So, there's not any consent happening. Just deciding whether being beaten and dragged away in public would be helpful to you, and in many cases it is not.
You might be confusing US law around unlawful search and seizure with US law around border crossings. While the ACLU's position is that the 4th amendment trumps CBP, CBP's position is that it does not and that you cannot stop them.
Hard disagree.
Did they ask him if they could search and he said yes, or no? Or did they just take his device away from him and did a search without his permission?
Consenting to a search, or have one mandated by a judge's order, is one of the fundamental pillars of citizen rights and laws in this country.
Was it a legal or illegal search? That's not a pointless question to ask.
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I notice you asked for an explanation and then only sort-of read the first sentence.
No, I read the whole thing, fully. I just disagreed with your analogy, thought it was a bad one, too verbose and obfuscating of the subject being talked about. Also it didn't cover someone searching your belongings with/without your permission, the subject being talked about. Law officials have more legal leeway to detain you than they do to search your belongings without your permission, so your analogy doesn't work (especially when you throw in beatings into it).
Also, didn't think your last paragraph was legally accurate, but didn't want to bother arguing the point, since 'amendment > law > policy/rule' is a well-known given. I'm aware of the difference. When I asked my original question, it was to confirm if the border enforcement people were actually honoring the 4th amendment, or not, whatever their thought processes were.
I did appreciate you taking the time to reply (and civilly at that) though, thank you. P.S. I hope the tone of my reply wasn't too harsh, it wasn't meant to be rude, just straightforward.
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WTF is a voluntary search?
"Attention all flight passengers. This is ICE on the speaker. If you want to be searched, please raise your hand and we will get to you shortly."
"May I have your permission to search through your phone?"
"Yes."
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