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Quibble: Many here are explicitly leftist, in the a leftist-not-liberal sense, and will even use "liberal" derogatorily. So, progressive, yes, but liberal, not necessarily.
Good point, many think left = liberal = US democrats who are centrists at best from the international perspective. So no, most people on here probably aren't actual leftists, but I'm guessing when they say they 'lean left' they mean US-liberal-not-conservative, not socialist or whatever.
From my perspective I think that that is very silly. I don't care for purity tests, but what would I know? I'm just a dirty libertarian.
Liberal policies are an actual thing, a thing that leftists frequently disagree with.
Libertarians are often placed on the right part of the left-right divide. The fact you’ve chosen the label libertarian instead of conservative is animated by the exact same “purity test” that you find so silly.
I would like to throw out there that the ACLU is a libertarian organization that would likely line up with the majority of the beliefs of Lemmy users. With that said I understand most people aren't using libertarian in its 'correct' meaning as the ACLU does.
Yea I tend to think than when someone identifies as a Libertarian they almost certainly don’t mean a civil libertarian, which is how the aclu actually identifies themselves.
This is literally the only time the word libertarian appears in their own history https://www.aclu.org/about/aclu-history
I only know because I interned there and it's something they talked about. Maybe it was always preceded with 'civil' I just don't remember that as well. The big issue amongst the workers when I was there was that in principle they supported Citizens United, and most of the employees did not support it in practice.
Just adding my experience to the topic, not sure why I got down voted for it. I'm not trying to push anyone to be libertarian just pointing out other ways the definition can be used.
You were downvoted because you dared to question the group think. Bad terrible actions irredeemable actions. How could you dare to bring your face here again?. Shame unending unyielding shame. Feel it understand it. You deserve it. /S
Authoritarians are often exceedingly fragile.
Neat, I appreciate your insight. Upvote from me and today I learned.
You realize that libertarianism is not a left right spectrum of the political orientation, correct?
For example Stalin was an authoritarian based in leftist ideology. Hitler is an authoritarian based in right-wing ideology.
Notice that while their economic goals are at complete odds with one another, they are both authoritarians.
You realize that libertarianism is not a left right spectrum of the political orientation, correct?
For example Stalin was an authoritarian based in leftist ideology. Hitler was an authoritarian based in right-wing ideology.
Notice that while their economic goals are at complete odds with one another, they are both authoritarians.
I'm libertarian because I believe in freedom of choice. I'm not a conservative because the only things I care about conserving are the oceans and the forests.
I hope that in the future we can stop using the worst monsters and strawmen from our peers chosen political affiliation to color our view of those peers.
You can't be both a libertarian and pretend to care about parks and forests. Pick one.
That's not true. I'm pretty sure most people don't 100% agree with The strictest definition of their chosen label.
It's not even that it's that they are deciding what the definition of the idealogy is based only on the most unhinged thoughts of the obnoxious voices of that ideology.
But I'm sure that .ml represents all Communists and socialists correct? It's totally an accurate representation because they call themselves those words
It wouldn't kill you to read
But based on your username, that may not be in your skill set
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geolibertarianism
Maybe you should refer to yourself as a geolibertarian instead of just as a libertarian. It would prevent some misunderstandings.
That's an interesting read. It's quite a bit different than what I'm used to people who call themselves libertarians talking about. I still think it would unwind and would be ruined by human nature, but it would be interesting to see such a system in action.
I'm not entirely sure about what are the reasoning behind your comment, but i see it as : llibertarian implies no state + parks and forest require state = incompatibility. I'd disagree on the parks and forest require state, i thinl they only need organization, meaning one or more NGO could handle it. Accepting this, not that much incompatibility between libertarian and forest remains (accepting libertarian as left wing meaning that does not imply private property)
In a purely libertarian society, parks wouldn't last long. They would either become prohibitely expensive and yet another thing only for the rich, or they would be harvested and the land mined.
Making them public is the only way to ensure they remain as they are.
Conversely, I shouldn't have to spell out my beliefs in order to be treated as a person
I'm certain that you're aware that words like communism, socialism and Marxism have a plethora of negative propaganda associated with them. Likewise, terms like libertarian are also dragged through the mud routinely.
I hope that in the future we can stop using the worst monsters and strawmen from our peers chosen political affiliation to color our view of those peers.
Annnnnnnd what? When did I dehumanize you? Human nature is precisely why I think a libertarian system would be a disaster.
I agree.
Whenever I see discussions about Libertarians, I always think about that town, Grafton, that got overrun with libertarians. Human nature indeed.
https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project
The book is a very nice read.
Your comment is so lacking depth of understanding that it hurts.
Whenever I see discussions about Communists, I always think about the gulags and death camps in the USSR. Russia was an empire before it was overrun with Communists. Human nature indeed. /S
Oh yeah, right wing libertarian (based on private property) seems a bad thing for forest, without specific system. I was talking about left wing libertarianism (without private property).
You’re about one “and I think healthcare is a human right” from being a progressive/dem soc.
I like the Democratic socialists. I don't like it when they seize power that will be upsurped by the next administration in powerand used to oppress people.
you forgot to switch alts to argue with yourself
You seem very confused I edited a comment and it posted to itself. It's the same fucking comment should I have deleted the tree and collapsed the thread?
You're thinking of the political compass there, which has two axes, one being the economic one (left/right) and the other being the Authoritarian (top) vs Libertarian (bottom) axis.
But the left/right most people use is a one-dimensional system which puts everything on that one axis. It's based on how the French parliament used to be set up between the radical left and the aristocratic right.
The point being, the two left/right axes aren't equivalent. I personally also think in the political compass, that's the system we learnt in school, so I'm unclear on what falls where on the basic left/right axis. But Wikipedia has this to say:
It isn't a purity test, it's a necessary accommodation of the fact that people in the US (and I say this as an American) think that the left ends at progressive liberalism, while everyone else in the world sees progressive liberalism as center-left at best because they acknowledge that 'the left' extends quite far past the bounds of Liberalism (the philosophy, not the political leaning), because Liberalism is about individualism and property rights but most people to the left of that are collectivist in some way shape or form.
Libertarian as the USA mean or the rest of the world mean?
As in the traditional meaning of the word
Thanks. I look forward to learning about libertarianism with and from you. Not saying I'll agree, but that I look forward to learning more.
Personally myself, I'm a bit of a geoist and a bit of a minarchist. I would advise that if you are interested you should start reading, John Lock and David Henry Thoreaus essays on governent and from there branch out.
to make matters more fun, many 'explicitly leftist' lemmings are tankies (blind supporters of russia, china, north korea, etc), who are explicitly not leftist but authoritarians masquerading in the skinsuit of the people's revolution.