MeanwhileOnGrad
"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
Alternatively, a detailed blog post about Tankies.
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.
Tankies can explain their views but may be criticised or attacked for them. Any slight infraction on the rules above will immediately earn a warning and possibly a ban.
Off-topic Discussion — Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post as opposed to arguing.
You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically only last 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction will double the amount. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
view the rest of the comments
It's amazing how a German political party used their version of the secret police to attack their political opponents, and somehow, people think the AfD are the fascists. Just bizarre.
They're not exactly subtle about being Nazis. Weird that you jump to defend them unless you're a Nazi yourself?
And looking at your profile, that's one question answered.
Wasn't that just made up? Like it wasn't the AfD who made that, but some random guy on the Internet?
Would it change your mind? Because it seems like the Holocaust denialism and should have done that already, unless you're just playing along like all right-wingers do.
Sounds like you're looking for any excuses to give these guys a pass just because they share the same far-right political alignment as you.
Tbh, anything that'd actually get posted here wouldn't change my mind, mainly because of a lack of trust. We've both seen articles that are blatant lies,
And wanting to deport assholes isn't exactly far right, despite labels to the contrary.
Oh there's a big surprise: a far-right wingnut will continue to lie for the Nazis despite the truth being very obvious.
How very postmodern of you. The truth is just what you believe, huh?
Well that's just a philosophical question, isn't it?
All you really know is what you experience first hand. Everything else is hear-say and personal beliefs.
I had a period of time during Trump's first admin where I read an article about him, and then I'd go find the original source, whether it was one of Trump's tweets, or a video of the event, or whatever. I really did my best to be impartial. And every time, I'd find that the article was either telling a half-truth or outright lying.
I'm a lot busier these days, (just with a few minutes of downtime here and there, that's when I get on Lemmy), so I can't investigate every article I come across, I just don't have the time. Those that I do look into usually turn out to be more half-truths and lies.
My personal experience says that the news is not to be trusted.
News in Europe is much different than news in the US. You can't really compare the two.
The Daily Mail is European. Der Spiegel is infamous for making up an entire town. Those are the two that come to mind immediately, but I'm sure there's others.
I'm not reading your fascist screed, get bent Nazi.
You've already said you don't care about the truth, this conversation is as worthless as that brain you have rattling around in your head.
Guess we're allowed to call out communists here, but fascists are A-OK.
What a joke of a com.
You can call out anyone you want. But when it comes to users you should be nicer
Nah, fuck fascists. I guess you want this place turning into a Nazi bar.
Why don't you check that guy in the modlog and see if you really want to stand up for him.
Here's a hint: he's a fascist, and they take whatever opportunity to spread their hateful rhetoric that will get my friends killed.
Nazis can make like their leader and kill themselves.
But he's yet to show that he's a nazi or has yet to break any rules.
He's doing PR for AfD, an openly fascist organization and you can't tell that he's a Nazi?
Typical liberal: letting fascists do whatever they want so they're seen as fair-minded.
I'm not a liberal, I'm a nihilist.
If you can prove that the user is definitely a nazi, then I'll ban them. Until then, nothing I can do. People are free to disagree with you.
If you don't think a person promoting a Nazi organization is a Nazi there's nothing that will convince you.
And frankly, IDGAF if you ban them. Like I said, this com is a joke. It's just telling that you want people to be nice the the fascists who come into your bar.
That's a good rule. Until you extend it to fascists, this com is a joke.
My personal opinions are different from those of a moderator. I hope you can understand that I do agree with you on the AfD and Nazis.
You were reported for your insults, so I had to tell you to stop it. Likewise, I told them to also change their comment about doubting the poster's legitimacy. Them disagreeing doesn't make them a Nazi. If you can find evidence that they are a nazi, then I can act, until then, there's little I can do.
or you can just say this com is a joke for the fourth time while still commenting and arguing in it, making the community grow.
This com is a joke, and your new Nazi pal is already making himself at home.
Good job giving reasonable accommodations to Nazis in an attempt to make number go up. The cherry on top is how you don't understand how liberal of a stance that is LMAO!
Nihilism just ain't what it used to be.
You already said you don't care if they're banned and that you don't like this community. So why are you still bothering exactly?
What can I say, I just love pointing out liberal sanewashing. Helping fascists without even being asked? That's peak.
I am curious what alt you are. Why don't you use your main account?
Hey be nice
The poster seems to be real:
https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/afd-accused-nazi-symbolism-election-germany-hm8dv7nql
Archive link: https://archive.is/dtG2v
He already said he doesn't care.
Which really begs the question: why did he use that defense if it literally didn't matter?
Because, like I told him, conservatives think things are true because they believe them. It's why I asked if it would change his mind— I knew it wouldn't, and I love it when they out themselves as the liars they are.
Notice how he's still defending the AfD after pretending that he was going to research it.
This is because he's a fascist who only says what he needs to win an argument. Fascists are so entirely predictable.
I appreciate the archive, it's nice when people do that. Too often, "credible" news sites change articles without saying so.
That said, if true, the AfD is incredibly suspect here. I'd have to go looking to see if what they're saying is true.
The poster is real. Please edit your initial comment to reflect that.
Give me a bit, I've been busy, and it's hard to find primary sources in languages I don't speak.
What primary source did you use to determine that the poster was a fake whenever you made that claim? You should just post that.
I'm not the one making the claim. The news article is. If anything, they need to be the ones providing evidence.
I see. You believed it was fake because you wanted to believe it.
Hey! Just like I said!
Just because some random news article claims something doesn't make it true. It's not evidence on its own.
And you know what, yeah I believed it was fake because it fit my lived experiences that most news articles are lying. I wanted it to be fake because it didn't fit my world view, that journalists are liars.
As an aside, I got a chance to look around over my lunch break, and I can't find any other pictures of that poster. You'd think if it was real, there'd be plenty of pictures. And I can't find anywhere where the AfD said what the article claimed they said.
So I'm going to go with Hitchens's razor. "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."
Wow, look at the big brain on numbnuts.
Weren't you already warned for being rude?
Do I look like I give a fuck about being rude to Nazi shitheads?
How about we just settle this.
@[email protected], is the AfD a party of extremists with ties to neo-nazis in their supporters and leadership? And are you also a supporter of this party? If so, why?
I don't know, I haven't looked into it enough, I haven't found evidence either way. They are suspicious, but I've seen a lot of ridiculous name calling in my day.
No. Flat no. I think we should deport illegal immigrants, so I'm agreeing on that front, but I don't know enough about them to be a supporter.
My real problem, which I have repeated a lot lately, is that you can't trust the news, and the German government has marked them as extremist. That I have found direct evidence for. (okay, I google translated it, but that's as direct as I can get, and that's the same standard I'll hold any other evidence I find).
Okay, here. 1 2 3 4
Yet you defend them? Why defend a party that you don't know anything about?
Media is difficult in the misinformation era we're in. But there are tools you can use to help. I personally use Mediabiascheck, which uses many different resources to determine how trustworthy a certain media is.
Edit: I appreciate the effort
For the record, news articles are not evidence in my eyes. I have said this repeatedly.
That said, Reuters basically just says they were founded, they got investigated and got labelled a right wing group, and at one point, a Chinese spy broke into their office. How is any of that an indictment against them? They're clearly a right wing group. Right wing doesn't mean evil.
The Times is just using hyperbolic language and posting that one picture of a poster that might actually be real, but the more I look for it, the more I'm convinced it never existed.
The ABC just claims that the AfD sued over the extremist label, which Iouldn't really doubt, it makes sense for them to do.
And then you linked wikipedia. Like honestly, wikipedia is a known crapshoot when it comes to political stuff. And all wikipedia claims is that they want to prevent illegal immigration, which should be the default.
All I'm seeing is a party that wants to curb illegal immigration, and for some reason, everyone is calling them Nazis over it. Maybe they are a modern reincarnation of it, but I've seen no evidence for it. The more research I've done, the more I'm convinced that the AfD are just a normal right-wing party, and everyone is calling them Nazis over it.
You're fooling no one with your ignorance and at this point nothing can convince you. Nazism is not allowed.
@[email protected] I agree with you
You know what gets me, is that nothing anyone is claiming makes them Nazis. They aren't wanting to kill millions of people.
I've been looking around at German articles, spending too much of my limited time on earth trying to find direct evidence, and all I can find is them wanting to deport illegal immigrants.
Which if that's the case, so what? That doesn't make them Nazis. Just right wing.
What?
What would you call it when one organization tries to hurt another organization?
I'd call that a perhaps clueless but more likely malicious mischaracterization of the events.