this post was submitted on 28 Sep 2023
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[Outdated, please look at pinned post] Casual Conversation
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Yes? I'm not American, so to me it seems like you guys tend to do that a lot.
"Oh no, this word was once used in a derogatory fashion, can't use that! Better start using some new euphemistic wor- oh shit, the new word is already also being used derogatorily, better start using some new euphemis- oh crap, that was fast, better just call it - oh, gawrsh..."
I mean, I'm not claiming it's a US specific thing. But you're damn good at it.
That’s a tricky argument to make, because some people (like you) mean it sincerely, but others just use the same argument as an excuse to be an ignorant, lazy, insensitive prick.
That's very subtle. Well done.
Huh?
It's insane watching American race politics from the outside. The fact that OP even asked the question implies a deep level of crazy I find hard to understand.
Yeah, but these are people who the U.S. committed genocide against, so there's some real cultural sensitivity here that's kind of big. Especially since we've never apologized for it. Imagine if Germans had never taken culpability for the Holocaust and then had a Jewish day at schools where kids wore yarmulkes. That would seem pretty offensive to me. And that's kind of what's happening here.
Cultural appropriation of a culture that suffered genocide seems the same to me across cultures that experienced the same thing. What's the difference?
Again, I ask you, what do you think gives you the right to decide?
Well.... What gives you the 'RIGHT' to tell them they don't have a 'right' to an opinion on the issue?? That's a very disingenuous comment made with a lot of immaturity, to just shut down a point you don't agree with...
no one gives you, or I, or anyone, a ' RIGHT' to opinionate on anything, really.. it's just Human nature to have an opinion on things we know about, have experience with, educated ourselves on, or have seen first hand.. to say they do t have a ' right' to engage because you feel they are irrelevant, is selfish and dangerous rhetoric..
You really don't have the 'Privilege' to deny anyone the reality of engaging in conversation and to share their opinions.. and regardless of where they live, how they live and what they do, you also do not have the personal 'privilege, to know every thing that this stranger knows, or has seen, or has experienced, to make the opinion....
It's a very nuanced issue and to shut someone down because you don't think they have a 'right' to state their opinions, or engage with conversations. Do you also passionately advocate for America's 1st amendment 'rights'? You're on a post about an American issue, and asking someone who is not American what 'right' they have to engage, so I have to assume you are American and do support the constitution... but just because you or I, are American, that does not mean non Americans can't comment or opinionate on issues we have.. the 'right' to engage should not be conflated with real 'rights' and used as a weapon to silence someone you disagree with....
Well now I’m saying you can’t be offended by what I said. You have to agree with me, because freedom of speech or whatever.
And again... you are not making sense nor are you being mature to a nuanced conversation. It would be a waste of time to continue to speak with you in good faith, if you're just gonna do the kindergarten equivalent of " I am Rubber, you're glue" .
Please grow up and learn how to have nuance.. I know it's tough to be mature and hear opinions you may not like, but part of growing up is having a factual conversation without emotions, in order to have an educated conversation with sustenance...
Nothing riles up Americans more than being told “no”. I owe you nothing. I was simply pointing out that a member of a country/culture that violently subjugated another country/culture doesn’t morally or ethically get to decide that what they do or say is or isn’t offensive to the country/culture that they violently subjugated.
Nothing riles up a troll more, than facts.. and you don't understand nuance.. so it's okay to deflect from the issue and point I am making ... it takes intellectual intelligence and a willingness to be unbiased... Trolls can't do that... glancing through your profile, really shows who you are and what you stand for... which is really nothing, but trolling...
Enjoy your meaningless endeavors online..
I mean, they're all in the same basket of gestures that lack respect towards members of a marginalized and oppressed group. Numerous Native American tribes suffered from genocidal policies or a lack of protection from genocidal settlers from the Federal government. Dressing up in a manner intended to be stereotypical and 'amusing' is the same essential degrading concept as blackface. There's nothing wrong with examining any incidents that may be culturally insensitive with a particularly critical eye, with that in mind.
We have, though. Not that an apology makes it all better - obviously the only sincere and just thing to do would be to engage in meaningful conversations and considerable investment of resources in order to assist the position of Native Americans still suffering from sins first set in motion generations ago, rather than some nice-sounding words from the Senate - but acknowledgement of the mistreatment of Native Americans is something that has happened and knowledge of which is much more prominent in the cultural zeitgeist anymore.
Hawaiians are not really considered Native Americans. They're Polynesian. So no, their genocide has not been apologized for.
Native Hawaiians have been included, legally, in the category of Native Americans since the 70s, and the resolution the Senate passed addressed 'Native Peoples' who had been fucked over by the Federal government specifically and by Americans in general. Like I said, an apology is next to nothing - but an apology was made.