this post was submitted on 24 Dec 2023
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It seems difficult to put such people in jail for such "crimes" when for one thing, >40% of Americans think that it was a good thing, and for another thing, several congresspeople have stated that they were there and participated - some even lying about that - as a badge of honor and pride. Truth has gotten "twisted" so that it is not "True" anymore, in some people's minds. Brainwashing techniques - e.g. repeating something ad nauseam so as to bypass the logical thought processes and instill it as "simply a fact" (even/especially when it is no such thing) - are extremely powerful, and I see efforts to use it on both sides of the political divide.
Speaking of, at one point in our history we were Americans first, members of a political party second, but this is no longer true, and nowadays someone's political affiliation is the single greatest defining characteristic of them (that btw is not true - or at least might not be!? - but it seems to be many people's perception in any case:-D).
And therefore, in order to stop the badness that whatever the "other side" will do, yes even murder captured on television apparently can be excused, and even celebrated for just how "peaceful" that protest was, and b/c it was so "peaceful", perhaps it should be done again, around... oh, let's say... the time of the next election maybe?
I guess we will see what happens.
That's true, but I believe about 40 or 50% of the American population is totally insane and clinically dangerous to other people. They are likely to see any sort of insurrection and violence against our country as being a "good thing."
I remember growing up in the 60s, a very divisive era, and how people were constantly bickering, the left was demonized, and the right was hated for their insistence on funding a non-winnable war and for hating the younger generation, it was quite a volatile time. I've not seen much of the "we're American's first" mentality, even after 911, but I always like to think it could still happen.
I watched the violent uprising on Jan 6th on television, and it would take an incredibly insane and unbalanced mentality to view it as being any sort of "peaceful" event. It most certainly wasn't. And it wasn't just a protest, it was a blatant attempt to destroy the country of America and everything we've built for the past two centuries.
And yeah, this coming political year will be the worst and most bloody in world history. What is going to happen this time around will change many people's beliefs about who should be allowed to run around with guns in our country. It will be ugly, but it will be exactly what the world needs to see to begin a process of shutting violent people down at any cost.
If you will allow me, I beg to differ: violence is the APPROPRIATE response, sometimes - rarely but not never. e.g., if you had a child who was being mauled by a dog, wouldn't you go to their aid, and strike the dog to get it to go away? Of course you would - any sane, responsible person would.
These people are being brainwashed into thinking that by rising up, they are protecting the "true America". Their heartfelt desire to protect things is GOOD. Their willingness to rise up and actually do something is GOOD. They are not complacent - they are literal heroes, in their own minds at least, but also called thus by those they respect, on the television, in the radio, in the "news" sources they choose to read, etc.
That is what is so twisted about the whole thing - it is not their badness or weaknesses that are being exploited (greed, lust, laziness, etc.), so much as their STRENGTHS, which are being re-directed towards an end that those who employ violence have not bothered to think through and understand. There IS a weakness involved, probably several (crowd mentality, giving up your agency to another rather than questioning everything - e.g. I Thessalonians 5:21 commands, though many preachers, especially evangelical Christianity, behind the pulpits in the Heartland of America do not teach that anymore... and instead are laying out the exact opposite message), but I do not think these people are themselves insane, so much as they are merely "normal".
Which is not to say that the overall effect is not insanity, ofc.
And yeah I suspect the "Americans first" thing would be more the previous generation, like during WWI & II, when people had to stand together regardless of political affiliation, against an outside aggressor. Whereas today, that outside aggressor has patiently lain in wait for so long that the call (for violence) is now coming from inside our own house... even if its' true origin derives from outside of it, e.g. Faux News dictating the talking points that Americans should follow, even if those came originally from Russia. Even if the latter country were to cease to exist literally today, the damage has already been done, and people in the USA now think how they wanted them to; but conversely even if the Republican party were to cease to exist today, those outside forces would continue to push for their desired ends... It is pressure from outside, and yet people today do not see it as that, and willingly go along with it.
Well of course you're welcome to differ, I enjoy your points of view and I'm not the sort who gets offended because of a differing point of view; in fact, I welcome it.
You're right, there are times violence might be necessary, and yes of course I'd intervene if a violence situation threatened any of my family members or pets. I don't condone violence at all but I get how it sometimes can happen anyway.
Yet I can't really condone willful violence against government officials, no matter how wrong-headed their actions may seem. I know some people believe that violence is justified when they are being disenfranchised, but I say that only brings about more misery for everyone.
But I agree with your points about outside aggressors having waited patiently for so long and now are having a field day. Again I totally am against it, waving weapons around and threatening LGBTQ people for being who they are, for example - that is never OK. I hate to see the worst of America being the example that others aspire to follow.
All I can say is, I can only do my part not to contribute to the violent attitude out there. Change is a process that requires small steps, not big acts of violence. Hopefully we can work together again as one people at being a more inclusive and non-violent nation.
I agree on all counts - including that Kbin is probably the most aggravating site I've ever used. I've never had so many problems with any social media site before.
I think we do agree on most everything, I absolutely agree with your comments about January 6th. I don't think that random acts of vandalism and violence like that do anything to help anybody - if anything, it actually showed people the real face of American extremism and how bad things can get when we encourage violence.
To me, anyone who wants to take a good honest swing at doing something good to protect our democracy needs to get out and vote, and encourage everyone they know to do the same. Honestly, the big problem we have is that many people just think "well my vote doesn't matter," so a large segment of them do nothing.
They say that all that has to happen to allow evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing. To me strength and "toughness" come from being intelligence and listening to each other and working against the idea that it's OK to act like a spoiled brat if things don't always go your way.