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The time for a challenger to have stepped up to Biden was before the primaries. The only ones who did lost abysmally. You and many like you could have spent your time and effort recruiting and canvassing for someone else. But you didn't. Instead, you just complain about Biden and have the temerity to say "any faults of Biden will be because of Trump" when you didn't do a thing to try to get anyone to primary him.
You want to bitch and moan, not help.
Given that the system is heavily skewed toward incumbency, your comment is a bit disingenuous. We both know that the DNC intended Biden to run. He had the advantage of thier coffers, thier PR machine, and the support of their leadership. Implying that the playing field was at all fair ignores reality.
I do agree, though, that Biden's many faults are his own. His most recent failure, support for ethnic cleansing and denial of aid to refugees, should have made him unelectable by the party that claims to be pro-human rights... but here we are, with him as the best of two terrible candidates.
It's not disingenuous at all. If you don't want Biden to run, work to primary him. That's how it works. The fact that almost no candidates even tried to primary him shows that people like the person I responded to didn't want to actually do the hard work it takes. They just waited until the inevitable and then complained. So I am going to point that out when they bitch about Biden like this. If they had at least tried, there was at least a chance Biden wouldn't be the nominee. They didn't try.
It shows nothing of the sort.
There was approximately a zero percent chance, statistically, that the superdelegates would vote for anyone beyond Biden. There was nearly no chance that a challenger would have been received with anything but contempt. This "logic" is the same logic both Reps and Dems use to gaslight third party challengers, too. "If you try real hard you can overcome our utter control of the debates and privileged position to win! We promise!"
Alternately, there WAS a choice and the vast majority of Democrats are okay with a candidate who is 100% okay cutting off aid to the victims of ethnic cleansing. I prefer to hope that that isn't the case.
I still say that if you don't work for change and just complain after the possibility of change has passed, you're being ridiculous.
Bernie was willing to run despite the DNC establishment. He knew what he was going up against. He did it more than once even. Maybe he thinks that if you don't at least make an effort to change things and just complain about them afterward, you're being ridiculous too?
And he was vilified and his supporters were blamed for Clinton's loss, as I recall. The party elite are on record noting that they would be comfortable bypassing the party's choice. There was no real chance that Sanders would get the nomination. Regardless, your assumption that anyone displeased with Biden just sat on their hands is... somewhat ridicluous. Given that they were going up against one of the most powerful political machines in the world, the chance of them making a dent in the establishment, even if they were activists full-time, would be low.
And if you think running within the party is difficult, hoo boy. You don't even want to talk about the anti-democratic fuckery that the GOP and DNC collude to impose on third part hopefuls.
And that's why President Hillary Clinton won her 2008 primary
The primary system is an incredibly undimocratic process. I live in West Virginia. The primary is almost always decided by the time it gets to my state. Everyone else has simply dropped out. Does my vote not matter?
How do you suggest a candidate be chosen?
A one day primary in which all candidates go against each other and everyone votes on a national voting day. We also completely get rid of the super delegate system and make it raw popular vote.
Also, any possible challengers to Biden had to know that anybody they pissed off by doing that would remember in 2026, 2028, etc., and that they should just "wait their turn" instead
Shades of Clinton's "Russian plant" slander v. Gabbard, perhaps?
To be fair, anyone that wants to run in a primary against the incumbent is already going to receive less due to the "never run against them" unwritten rule. We've been primed to see it as a failing strategy, and anyone that tries gets shouted down because "now is not the time."
I'll readily admit that some great things have been done this presidency, and Biden needs to be more vocal about that. However, his age being part of the conversation means that they're too afraid to actually have him talk about it (it seems like).
I dunno. I haven't felt less excited to vote in my life, and that's due to the pressure all around.
"Vote or it's fascism" is a great motivator to get out, but when it turns into a yearly thing it no longer it no longer feels like duty.
And yes, voting to stop fascism is a good thing. What I'm getting at is that apathy is going to win until we get someone that we can actually be excited for. Another Neo-liberal win isn't the victory that gives me high hopes for the future.
"It's not possible to primary Biden. Why can't we have a candidate other than Biden?!?!"
Easy thing to say instead of actually working to put a candidate in office.
I...are you being intentionally obtuse here? My point is that "putting in the work" quickly is overshadowed by the DNC having the largest megaphone available.
And a lot of us are working to just live. "Putting in the work" means either taking away what little time you have to decompress, or not working and instead stomping for that ideal candidate, by taking leave from work.
And aside from that, I was pointing out the "why" of it. Stop being abrasive and actually come into a topic willing to listen and talk.
My point was that not even trying to put in the work and then complaining that you didn't get your way is silly.
I read this as saying if you can't build an electoral apparatus within the Democrat party capable of challenging the party leaders, your opinion doesn't matter to the democrats
I love this "it's not worth trying" attitude as an excuse to complain.
Weirdly, I haven't heard anyone who was pushing for Dean Phillips or Marianne Williamson make that claim or that complaint. Maybe because they actually did the work.
>I love this “it’s not worth trying” attitude as an excuse to complain.
that's not what I said. it's a strawman.
Yes, I know your 'if I don't literally say something, any inference you make is false' game. You played it yesterday too.
And, of course, you're allowed to interpret what I say however you like.
it's not a game. it's just intellectual honesty
I see. The idea that you can interpret my comment any way you like but I are not allowed to interpret any of your comments except 100% literally is intellectual honesty to you.
Interesting.
I explained my interpretation. you lampooned me using quotes. it's just a matter of intellectually honest engagement.
Wouldn't the intellectually honest thing be to ask me what I meant rather than decide your interpretation was correct?
if it's not, then you could correct it. what you did was argue with a strawman.
If I tell you why your interpretation was wrong, will you agree to believe me?
it doesn't much matter. I'm not arguing about it. I'm just sharing my feelings.
I see, so it doesn't matter what I meant to say, it only matters what you feel I said. And that is intellectual honesty.
I'm not arguing about it. I'm telling you how I feel. you lampooned me then argued against a position I didn't take.
Yes. You already said that how you feel about what I said is more important than what I actually meant. Which, apparently, is an intellectually honest position.
I said no such thing
Me: "If I tell you why your interpretation was wrong, will you agree to believe me?"
You: "it doesn't much matter. I'm not arguing about it. I'm just sharing my feelings."
It sure looks to me like you said it doesn't matter what I meant, only what you feel about what I meant. Would you care to explain?
look at how different, syntactically, my statement is from your accusation.
Could you please explain what you meant?
it doesn't matter if i believe you. i'm not going to argue with you about what you meant. there is no evidence i could concieve of that would be able to contradict your self-report of your intentions. so what i believe doesn't matter.
is that any clearer?
Yes. It is clearer. It is clearer that you are just a troll and I will be flagging you as such from now on. I do not advise you to continue trolling me.
i can help you find the block button if you like
If you're not a Republican, your opinion doesn't matter to the Democrats.
10/10
It's not the fault of the electorate that the democratic party has lost touch with its base.
There are potentials. Eg. Gavin Newsom. He did well on Hannity.
It's too late for him to become the candidate, but perhaps he'll do as vice president.
Statistically there's something like a 50% chance that Biden dies within the next few years. No one lives forever. There needs to be a good backup.
The time for those "potentials" to run was months ago. Biden is going to be the nominee. That's how the cookie crumbles.
Also, there's only been one poll about a potential matchup between Newson and Trump, and granted it is from Fox, but Trump wins handily.
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-newsom
Biden is currently 81. I googled and there's something like a 10% chance he dies within the year. Similar number for Trump obviously, given he's fat, angry and doesn't exercise. Unfortunately God is dead, or I'd be able to factor in thoughts and prayers too.
They need to have good VP picks though.
My apologies. Unless it's he literally can't run for president, Biden is going to be the nominee.
I thought that was implicit. Obviously if he can't run, he won't be the nominee.
Isn't it way too late for that? I mean there have already been primaries. That's sort of my point.