this post was submitted on 17 Feb 2024
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I'm getting really sick of this meme format. I get it, Trump is way worse than Biden, but that doesn't mean we can't acknowledge that they're both insanely old. We'll all try to toss Biden's corpse over the finish line a second time, but stop trying to gaslight us into thinking that electing an 81 year old is normal.
It's possible to criticize Biden and be unhappy about his age without acting like him and trump are equally as bad, which a lot of "centrists" do to justify not voting. Those people are the ones being criticized in this post.
Yep. Trump voters don't give a shit. They'll vote no matter what. The people pushing the idea of not voting out of protest or whatever aren't doing it honestly, at least not the first ones. The first ones are trying to get Trump elected. They might convince some fools to also push the same message without following the agenda.
The problem is, and why Reagan made a rule to not do it, is that when you call out your own side you give your enemy a fucktonne of ammo to use against you and sway moderates.
Look what happened to Al Franken and we've DESPERATELY needed him these last few years.
I love Jon Stewart and I really enjoyed his most recent segment where he calls out both sides, making it CLEAR that trumpty dumpty is the worst offender, but it's already being used to make the moderates think that dems are abandoning Biden.
Look what happens when you refuse to call out your own side, the GOP has become a complete clown show because of it.
I am sorry, but in the US there is no moderates between the Dems and Reps. The Dems are representing far right neoliberalism and imperialist warmongering. The Reps are representing far right neoliberalism, imperialist warmongering and on top social values from the 50s, now sprinkled with a lot of fascism.
What would be considered moderate, by the standard of other western democracies is distinctively left of the Dems. And Dems are getting away with moving further and further to the right, as they can always say "see the other guy is worse". If a sizeable part of the people unhappy with the Dems would vote a third party, it would actually threaten their power basis and force them to become a real alternative to the Reps.
Yeah, but is anyone actually saying they're equally, "bad," or just that they're both too old for this? I've heard people say that both shouldn't be running but they'll vote for Biden, or that Trump is fine and Biden is senile and criminal and part of the cabal (or whatever they believe these days), but I've never heard anyone say, "both are too old, therefore they're equal and I won't vote for either." That seems like strawman meant to delegitimize criticism of Biden's age.
I have personally seen people say that so they do exist.
I've seen lots of people accused of saying that when they give any criticism of Biden, but I've yet to actually see someone actually say that. At least my personal experience is like 10:0 of people accusing a specific person of saying that to the person actually saying that. That kind of POV I saw a lot more during Obama vs Romney, but not Biden vs Trump.
Just because someone says they're not voting for someone who actively helps fund genocide doesn't mean they're saying the major alterative is equal. Just that neither major candidate passes the extremely low bar to be willing to vote for them.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone say they're equally bad. I've seen a shitload of memes like this one that imply it's widespread though.
Exactly. It definitely isn't a, "centrist," position either, centrists are firmly behind Biden. It feels like something leftists who are considering voting third party might say, but again, it's not something I've actually seen anyone say. This feels like a meme in search of a problem.
In my experience people get a lot of that dumb camelcased "both sides" crap any time they make a legitimate criticism about Biden. It's like a lot his supporters take a firm "with us or against us" stance. Which, ironically, is fucking exactly what the trump people do lol
Yeah, that's my sense as welll. This meme feels like it was written by the kind of person who responds to any criticism of Biden with, "Oh so you want Trump to win?"
Are you saying Trump supporters and Biden supporters are equal! /s
I've seen it a few times. You probably won't see it much on lemmy since lemmy is pretty left leaning for the most part and doesn't have as many of those types of centrists, but those people do exist on other sites that I've seen.
I'm getting tired of people going on and on about their ages as if it's something nobody noticed before. As if it's going to change the situation.
A lot of Americans like voting for old fuddy duddies. You can't control how other people vote, you can only control how you will vote. Old people vote and young people tend not to. You aren't going change anything in a democratic process by not voting.
86% of Americans think Biden is too old to be President. 62% of Americans think Trump is too old to be President. 59% of Americans think both are too old to be President. Most Americans, by a wide margin, do not like voting for, "old fuddy daddies."
Very few people are saying, "don't vote," but most people are saying, "don't allow these men to run the country." This meme is either targeting a very niche person or creating a strawman for the majority of people by equating, "these men are too old," with, "these men are the same, don't vote."
The presidential election isn't democratic. In fact, it's antidemocratic by design.
With that said, you won't change anything voting between two conservatives either.
What's the deal with this certainty that this is the result of people's will? I'm more inclined to beleive it is a systemic result of 'winner takes all' logic and the penetration of political and media institutions by bad actors.
Do you honestly think that anything will convince the DNC to forward ANY candidate except the one that already beat cheetolini?
I mean, I'm voting for blue despite my misgivings because I KNOW how dangerous twice impeached seditionists are to our democracy, but I am not doing it with enthusiasm.
The DNC will never allow an actual progressive anywhere near the presidency.
But the DNC will also never change, if their actions have no consequences.
If they can perpetually get away with "Well our candidate is not aspiring to be a second Putin", all that does is push the political spectrum further and further to the right, until the DNC will give you a Putin and the Republicans will give you a Mussolini.
And so, to make the DNC face concequences, let's make them lose to the candidate that's aspiring to be a second Mussolini immediately! When he does the Day of the Rope, all those trans people who get hanged will appreciate that we made sure the DNC had concequences!
I understand your concern. You should ask yourself though, if the Dems would actually stand up for trans rights, if they had to. So far my impression was, that they are happy to throw any minority under the bus, if it serves them opportunistically.
And they think they can do that, because they hold each minority hostage with the lie of "we are the best you can expect"
So I say that you're proposing to throw away trans lives for the principle of the thing, and your response is that Dems might throw away trans lives for some kind of ephemeral opportunity that hasn't come around in the last ~15 years or so. If, and I do mean if, they did throw away trans lives for whatever it is you're fear mongering about here, at least that's more than the nothing we'd get under your plan of "split the vote to make sure Rs win, then the DNC would learn something for the next election that will be canceled by the Rs." Even in your defense you laid out the question is would I rather have something or nothing? I'd rather have something. And I don't think they would either way.
Show me where the republicans advocate for genociding trans people?
Because right now Biden is supporting a genocide.
Also why is it that anyone deems it acceptable policy, that either party on the ballot supports some form of murdering minorities?
So you don't understand my concern at all. You should probably pay attention to the rhetoric and policies pushed by conservative politicians and media before you say democrats are just as bad as them.
What consequences do you propose?
You're calling the DNC the party of no change?
They will not change on the issues of supporting neoliberal capitalism that is literally killing the people in the US, as well as genocidial imperialism that is killing the people outside of the US.
Just look at the history of the past twenty years. First came Obama, who was a black president and as such a token of progress, but at the same time accompanied by Biden, who was somewhere between conservative and reactionary. Obama failed to deliver on progressive promises like closing Guantanamo, while launching a deadly program of extrajudicial killings, read cold blooded assassinations by drones. After Obama, the DNC pushed for Hillary Clinton, who as a secretary of state under Bush was coorchestrating the Iraq invasion, that not only was just as illegal us Putins invasion of Ukraine, and founded on equally absurd lies, it also killed a million people and led to the rise of ISIS. Meanwhile Saudi Arabia was palliated, despite clear connections between Saudi Arabia and 9/11.
So Clinton became the candidate. What did she advocate for? For starting a war with Iran, setting all of the Middle East ablaze. If you think the war against Iraq was bad, with a million people killed, imagine ten times that many people killed. That was Hillary Clintons idea of American foreign policy.
And who did we get afterwards? Joe Biden, who has been on the reactionary side for the msot part of his long lasting history as senator. He was already a geriatric at the time of the campaigning in 2018-2020. But the DNC would rather create the conditions under which Democracy will be abolished, than ever dare as much as bring an actually progressive candidate. A candidate where the only progress expected would be to not kill the poor in the US, through devastating economic policy and to not kill people abroad through illegal invasions and US white supremacy.
Why should anyone listen to you when it's obvious you have no clue what you're talking about. Hillary was SOS under Obama, not Bush, and she had absolutely nothing to do with the Iraq invasion. But, hey, why let a little thing like facts get in the way of your vitriol.
Yes. There are problems with the DNC. I don't think there's any democrat on here who is 100% happy with how the party is run.
But we're not the party of one great leader. Not everyone who is a democrat blindly follows the person in charge. But every democrat wants change, that's why we vote blue regardless. Or else at best we stay stagnant under republican rule.
You know you can become a member of the DNC right? You know that you have representatives on the DNC you can contact, right? You know you have influence on the DNC if you actually choose to exercise it, right?
You don't know I volunteered in all local and state level elections from 1991 to 2006?
You don't know that I manned the phones both times for Bernie a minimum of 15 hours a month?
You SHOULD know that the only influence normal people have in the DNC directly relates to how much they can donate, and hours apparently don't equate to voice.
I'm fucking turning half a century this year, you do this shit I paid my time.
As a Tolkien fan and someone who hates voting for octagenarians, this post triggers me more than I'd like to admit.
Equating the upcoming election to this isn't a choice between Saruman and Gandalf, it's between Saruman and Sauron, but instead of picking either of those guys, you pick Aragorn, who Gandalf really likes.
So what we should do, instead of voting for either, is ask ~~Gandalf~~ Bernie Sanders who he'd like to be president and vote for that guy.
Also, the whole "line of kings is broken" portion of this joke feels way to close to an RFK Jr. joke for my taste. The man's insane.
It really does bother me that so few are willing to recognize what a shitty president Biden has been.
I mean, if you're a wage earner in half of the US states, Biden did jack shit to help you and you can still be legally paid $7 an hour, but he moved heaven and earth to make more money appear out of thin air for Israel, Ukraine, and other miscellaneous wars when he's already budgeted a trillion dollars for war.
I don't understand why I shouldn't expect a progressive use the power of the presidency to make real positive change as hard as Trump used it to try and ban Muslims.
Also Biden is supporting Israel in its genocide against the Palestinians. A muslim political analyst coined it this way:
"Why should you vote for the guy that is commiting genocide, over the person that might commit genocide? Commiting genocide must be a red line to not vote someone."
^This is a forum sliding account.
Remember that any criticism of Biden, no matter how legitimate, is definitely pro-trump Russian propaganda. God forbid people don't just want to vote against something.
At the end of the day, this is how it is. The system is absurdly broken. We couldn't possibly be here if it wasn't. The fact that they keep shoving Biden at us doesn't mean that we shouldn't choose him over the much more overt fascist Trump, but it also doesn't mean that we should accept him.
No matter who's elected, everyone should fucking riot.
If you really think that to be the case then democracy is already dead and Putin has won.
oh is that what this meme is about?
The vice presidential debate is more important than ever.
No it's not, it's end of (or decline of) democracy vs current (shitty) state of democracy.
was trump significantly worse? I mean his retoric was awful yes, and he was a mask off facist, but Biden has done almost nothing to undo what trump started, and in some cases has activly sped it up, the only difrence that I can see is that Biden talks more polite
You're not the target of the meme if you're able to understand that voting for Biden is a necessity.
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