cross-posted from: https://midwest.social/post/9997521
To the person from lemm.ee who reported this post as "terrorism" go fuck yourself.
Link for tickets: https://events2022.tpusa.com/events/kyle-rittenhouse-at-kent-state
Locked because I keep getting reports from people arguing. Cool off.
Murder is the wrong word here. Maybe manslaughter at worst. He's was a teenager that put himself in the wrong place sure, but after being chased by armed assailants, tripping and falling, yelling for them to back up while one person pointed a fucking gun at him while he was laying on the ground, and then firing after they continued to advance on him... Definitely not murder at that point. Not to mention he then immediately went to the police to turn himself in. He tried to de-escalate, he tried to escape, and he immediately turned himself in to law enforcement after the shooting. Other than electing to be at the wrong place, at the wrong time, he did everything that any reasonable person would do in that situation to defend themselves.
I'm not saying he's a hero, I'm not saying he was right to be there "defending" property that no one asked him to defend. I'm not saying he did the right thing by showing up to a protest armed with a lethal weapon. I think he a fucking dumbass military cosplayer with a main-character personality complex and a wisdom dump stat, but I don't think he's a murderer.
I think it's murder when you take a gun to a place specifically to oppose a group you hate, then you kill multiple of those said people that you knew before leaving home that you hated.
But I'm just weird like that
I guess Ukrainians are murdering Russians right now?
Seems about right, but your definition is very broad, and definitely would not hold up in a court of law.
I never said I was a lawyer. Bye bad-faither.
Neither did I, and I don't think anyone would believe it right now if you did.
I'm not the one making up my own definition for murder and then getting mad when other people point out that my definition is very loose, lacks meaningful implications, and encompasses clear-cut defensive situations.
TTFN.
My favorite type of troll. The one going around trying to hold people to legal definitions if it suits them, dismissing any logic not aligned with what a court would say.
Oh, you're back already? That was fast.
Not trolling. Anyone can freely look up a video of the shooting, and the events leading up to it. Having seen the video first hand, it is clearly a defensive shooting. Secondly, you are accusing someone of murder based on your own loose logic, and pretending that it should have the same implications and stigma as the legal definition, since you previously opined that he "walked" away from legal consequences. In that case, you are a murderer, by my arbitrary out of my ass definition, because you killed your argument.
What a weakly strung together pile of idiocy
Self-reflection is a bitch, ain't it?
You wouldn't know. Because by this nothing burger of an argument, no one is allowed an opinion that wouldn't hold up in a specific courtroom. Because as we all know, courtrooms have only ever decided cases a) accurately to reflect the law and b) under laws that are 100% just.
Therefore, FascistDefender9000 is forced to conclude that opinions contrary to legal definitions are 100% evil and abhorrent, and are identical to just making up any shit that can be imagined.
What's next in a world where people's opinions aren't based on law? Social change? Dogs and cats living together?! I cannot just sit idly by while opinions like "taking a gun to menace people you hate and then killing them likely means you premeditated exactly such a scenario" exist!!!
I think your definition of murder is shit, regardless of a courtroom being involved, hence why my first first example didn't involve a courtroom at all.
Funny name there. Thinly veiled ad-hominems aside, do you think that Kyle Rittenhouse (or anyone else) should be denied due process because of their fascist beliefs? That actually sounds pretty fascist to me...
Not what I said. This is a poor attempt at a strawman.
Pretty much the usual shit? Laws are based on established opinions about social conduct. You're the one who thinks that your opinion of what makes a person a murderer should be used in legal proceedings, which is why you are so angry that a teen in a clear-cut self defense scenario did not get convicted of murder.
That is your opinion on what happened. In the case of what actually happened, should Kyle, or anyone else, lay on the ground and let people beat, and possibly even execute them, after they tried to de-escalate and escape the situation, or do they have a right to defend themselves?
Which is why it's weird you didn't just move on and I'm still getting ridiculous messages in my inbox. Now you're trying to imply that I think legal processes shouldn't exist due to my read of a single situation. Try harder. Good luck with your trolling campaign.
This wasn't you?
This isn't your definition of a murderer?
That wasn't you insinuating that I'm defending fascists, and that it's a bad thing to hope for equal application of justice, even when the people protected by it are people that I find reprehensible?
Rittenhouse and his party are fascists. Sorry you're mad they can't kill anyone they want without being criticized. Must be really hard for them.
How delusional do you need to be to make this correlation? Did Ukraine drive across country lines to participate in another countries conflict?
Are Ukrainians not specifically armed, and going to where the Russian occupiers are?
I've seen enough drone drop videos to know that they are indeed killing Russians
I'd hate people that came in to my country and just started shooting missiles at schools and hospitals.
It quite literally fits the "definition" that was posted. Of course it's absurd, that's the whole point. The definition the other person was using was broad and vague enough that it dilutes the term to the point where the word no longer conveys useful meaning, yet they still insisted that meaning applied in a very well defined legal sense.
That's a lot of words for you just making up a straw man. It's not even remotely an applicable comparison. I have no idea why you would bring it up and it serves no purpose.
I mean, the other guy literally made up a definition for murder and argued that. It is as strawman as it gets. I just pointed out that the definition they created encompasses clear cut self defense situations. And... That they can't expect a court of law to hold someone accountable for murder using their made up definition of the term. So either Kyle did murder people, using that made up definition, but the term loses its meaning because the made up definition dilutes it, or Kyle didn't murder anyone, because the actual definition for murder does not encompass cases of self defense.
Yes, it's justified so it's self defense.
You should really think about things before you speak.
No shit, of course it's justified. That's the whole point.
Then it's justified homicide..... You know .. fucking murder with an excuse.
Ya dumb
Yep. That's the point again. Seems like you really got it.
Too easy.
Ya dumb.
Learn to pronounce mur·der /ˈmərdər/
noun
the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.
"the stabbing murder of an off-Broadway producer" synonyms: killing, homicide, assassination, liquidation, extermination, execution, slaughter, butchery, massacre, manslaughter, patricide, matricide, parricide, fratricide, sororicide, filicide, infanticide, uxoricide, regicide, slaying
verb
kill (someone) unlawfully and with premeditation.
"somebody tried to murder Joe" synonyms: kill, put/do to death, assassinate, execute, liquidate, eliminate, neutralize, dispatch, butcher, cut to pieces, slaughter, massacre, wipe out, mow down, bump off, do in, do away with, do for, knock off, blow away, blow someone's brains out, stiff, take out, top, croak, give someone the works, dispose of, hit, zap, ice, rub out, smoke, waste, off, whack, scrag, terminate, slay
You'd rather get irate for an hour over something you can Google in 5 seconds.
I may be dumb, but I'm smarter than you.
You're not keeping up. They don't believe it to be lawful so the correct term is murder as you just evidenced yourself.
Ya dumb.
Ukrainians HAVE been murdering Russians since 2014, tho...
He traveled across state lines with a rifle with intention to shoot someone