this post was submitted on 29 Mar 2024
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Whether you blame Biden and the DNC, or the “left” voters for not voting hard enough; if Trump wins, it won’t matter. Get over yourself and try to build allies instead of destroying support.
Why would this surprise you? Democrats are center right politically, they're just as happy to flirt with authoritarianism when it suits them.
Anarchists hate tankies. Tankies hate liberals. Liberals hate anarchists. Meanwhile, Trump, fascism, and Project 2025 is on the horizon. Reach across the divide. When the fascists come for you, are you really gonna ask if the people willing to fight with you are Leninists, Trotskyist, or social Democrats?
We can criticize ideals, but at the end of the day, we’re all fighting fascism.
It's not Kool aid, it's an understanding of reality. There's no chance of running a third party or another democrat in this month of this year in this election .
Your only choice is to either vote Biden, and try to convince him to change policy, or do any other action and be fine with trump, who will never be convinced of anything, will happily build an actual Christian nation-state and is likely compromised by foreign actors .
After the election, hoping Biden wins, is the time for leftists to wake up and build a candidate. If trump wins they may never get the chance due to project 2025.
It's like this:
The floor is covered in broken glass. You must cross it to get out.
You are wearing very uncomfortable high heel shoes.
You can either remove the uncomfortable shoes and walk in the broken glass, taking massive damage. Your feet will never be the same.
Or you can wear the uncomfortable shoes, safely cross the room, and then stop once you are out, and either remove the shoes and find new ones.
i am not fine with biden or trump.
That's fine, but you are in a game. You have 2 choices. Your actions influence ONLY the possible success of one of those two names.
i'm going to be voting for cornel west or jill stein (or de la cruz if someone can convince me). but i won't be voting for fascists.
And depending on your county/state, your vote will do nothing, or help trump. Enjoy.
my vote will add one to the vote total of the candidate for whom i vote. unless that person is trump (it won't be), then i am voting against trump.
That's fun fairy time, but it isn't reality. You need to research how game theory, and the availability (or lack) of true choice works.
You are literally at the precipice of "do I like the giant douche, or the turd sandwich". You cannot have anything else.
Edit in some cases (location dependant) chosing a third means you implicitly choose the distant other
I.e. if the third is closer to Biden than trump (even if very different, it's all about proximity), then you helped trump.
Another flavor: if your district is highly contested, and a trump win is close, a vote for anyone but Biden is a vote FOR trump. You are feeding the uncertainty of contest.
this is election misinformation. only a vote for trump is a vote for trump
You'll need to defend that. It's not supported empirically or theoretically.
That is the shortest vision you could possibly have. True crabs in a bucket brain.
you're spreading election misinformation. a vote for cornel west cannot be counted as a vote for trump.
Dude, they fully explained it to you, how are you still not getting it?
wrong. only a vote for trump helps trump
Literally uneducated response.
I described the situation earlier with you.
If your third party vote is closer to Biden than trump, you just spoiled Biden, thus aiding trump.
This is so simple
you're literally lying about how votes are counted
I've made quite clear that location matters. I've been consistent on that.
it's simple to lie
Prove me wrong, shame me. Display any example of a constrained 2 outcome system where non participation results in non 4 variant outcome.
Help Biden hurt Biden Help trump hurt trump.
society is not a constrained 2 outcome system. your entire premise is wrong.
You are part of society you silly goose
game theory does not actually describe how people do or should act. it is an academic exercise that you should leave to the academy
My dude you are living it. This is the most present and surface example of game theory existing out of academia
if game theory dictated human behavior, and if you are right about the options and outcomes, then no one would vote third party. so either you're wrong about the options and outcomes, or game theory doesn't dictate human behavior
In many countries, third parties are very viable. In this particular election, in the US, they are not.
Game theory happens to humans weather they acknowledge it or not. What you are experiencing is the illusion of choice in an outcome constrained system.
i will not do something immoral like vote for biden or trump.
I'm ready to keep helping you with this:
Whatever you do, you are influencing the success of Biden or trump. There is nothing else.
if all you can see is the winner of the presidency in 2024, you have a miopic view. there are many possible outcomes and many possible futures, and who wins the election in november is inconsequential to almost all of it.
Are you discussing post election? I've commented on this in this thread. Leftists and progressives have work to do, today, and beyond the election to build a viable candidate.
You are moving the goalposts by discussing the ever after, because nothing I've said to you means anything beyond the next vote. All m discussing is the next vote. Pretty shitty behavior to try to shift things like that.
i think it's shitty to try to browbeat people into voting for immoral candidates. or to narrow the scope of the discussion to only one facet and ignore all the other outcomes and impacts.
I'm educating you on how reality works. You're effectively asking if you can invent a perpetual motion service, and I'm reciting the basic laws of thermodynamics
this is condescending as fuck
Another non-voting/third party stan cosplaying as a leftist.
If im to take ur comic in good faith, ill make like the Spanish anarchists and still participate in the god awful system that we're all apart of either way to reduce the harm it does to me or my comrades. Surely you will recognize that as praxis.
What does hate achieve?
Joseph Fort Newton
I like this one! In your honor, and i suppose JF Newton's, ill paste what i wrote elsewhere as i see it as pertinent.
Weve argued time and time again. If u are a good faith actor, there is nothing here that u should disagree with. All avenues must be taken, none should be disparaged. Everyone does what they can, but some do a little more. Those that do more get honor and respect from the rest, as is deserved, but the rest get neither honor, nor dishonor, but they still receive respect as ur comrades.