this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2024
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Political Memes

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"Every previous president would have ended it by now."

"Biden literally couldn't do worse."

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As I said, 'No genocide' is not one of the two options that's going to win. The race is close, not voting for 'less genocide' only helps 'lots of genocide'. So you're helping 'lots of genocide' beat 'less genocide', congrats.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

voting against genocide doesn't help genocide. this is pure doublespeak.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Voting against genocide doesn't reduce genocide. In American elections, the only votes that have an effect are those for one of the two front-runners. Any other vote is an admission of equivocation of the two front-runners. The two front-runners are 'some genocide' and 'lots of genocide'. Equivocating the two means you think 'some genocide' and 'lots of genocide' are equally acceptable. Q.E.D. you accept lots of genocide.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Equivocating the two means you think ‘some genocide’ and ‘lots of genocide’ are equally acceptable.

no. i don't find either of those acceptable. that doesn't make them the same. it just means that neither of them meets the bar of acceptability.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Unfortunately the American electoral system is not ranked choice, so "bar of acceptability" isn't a functionally meaningful concept. In American elections, the situation is as I've described above. Refusing to choose one of the two primary options functionally means you find both primary options equally acceptable.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Refusing to choose one of the two primary options functionally means you find both primary options equally acceptable.

false.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You’re going to allow one of them to be president, so no it’s not false. Throwing your vote away on a third party is equivalent to not voting.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

you find both primary options equally acceptable.

i don't finde them equally acceptable, but i find them both unacceptable.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Throwing your vote away on a third party is equivalent to not voting.

election misinformation. my vote must be counted just as everyone else'.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

duverger's "law" has no predictive value. it's a tautology as empty as "supply and demand".

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Tautologies are statements that are necessarily true by virtue of their construction. In order to show that something is tautological, you must reduce it to an open statement and be able to show that it's true independent of the variables. Tautologies include "Not Q or Q" and the equivalent "If Q then Q". Furthermore, stating that something is a tautology implies that you believe it's true. The last time I encountered someone claiming that something didn't have predictive value "because it's a tautology" was a creationist saying the same of evolution, and I realized they had essentially granted their opponent's conclusion.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

in a show of good faith, i'm about to break from my usual rhetorical style. i hope you find this explanation helpful


Duverger’s Law is a tautology because, from a critical rationalist perspective, a tautological statement is one that cannot be empirically tested or falsified—it’s true by definition. Duverger’s Law states that a plurality-rule election system tends to favor a two-party system. However, if this law is framed in such a way that any outcome can be rationalized within its parameters, then it becomes unfalsifiable.

For example, if a country with a plurality-rule system has more than two parties, one might argue that the system still “tends to” favor two parties, and the current state is an exception or transition phase. This kind of reasoning makes the law immune to counterexamples, and thus, it operates more as a tautological statement than an empirical hypothesis. The critical rationalist critique of marginalist economics, which relies on ceteris paribus (all else being equal) conditions, suggests any similarly structured law should be viewed with skepticism. For Duverger’s Law to be more than a tautology, it would need to be stated in a way that allows for clear empirical testing and potential falsification, without the possibility of explaining away any contradictory evidence. This would make it a substantive theory that can contribute to our understanding of political systems rather than a mere tautology.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Thank you, that was easy to understand and well-stated. You've given me something to ponder.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

The last time I encountered someone claiming that something didn’t have predictive value “because it’s a tautology” was a creationist saying the same of evolution

i don't know the exact context you're referencing, but i do know that trying to pigeonhole me with creationists is underhanded.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

stating that something is a tautology implies that you believe it’s true.

i believe anyone may claim that the price of a good can be described as the point at which temporal demand met temporal supply, but that doesn't make it a useful observation. it's not even disprovable, as there is no way to test it. so there is no reason to believe it's actually true.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm not getting in another argument with you; you're dishonest and annoying. I replied to educate, because despite your claims otherwise you're clearly ignorant.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

because despite your claims otherwise you’re clearly ignorant.

saying it doesn't make it so.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I’m not getting in another argument with you; you’re dishonest and annoying.

i don't want to argue with you, either. but i do think anyone reading this should know that you are poisoning the well, here.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

a tautology is also an appropriate term for any post hoc explanation of material facts that gives no insight into how the future will happen.

duverger's "law" is storytelling, it's not science.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

That's not what a tautology is, Duverger's Law is a mathematical derivative of First Past the Post election systems. Yes, under FPTP systems, voting third party is equivocating support for both primary parties. Performative ethics without pragmatics is moral masturbation.

Splitting your responses is rhetorically ridiculous.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Performative ethics without pragmatics is moral masturbation.

deontological ethics are preferred by professional philosophers and are the basis of most ethical systems. most people grew up with an understanding that "the ends justify the means" can be used to justify some pretty horrific shit.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

under FPTP systems, voting third party is equivocating support for both primary parties.

no, it's not.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wow you really got him, great rebuttal.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

i provided just as much evidence an he did.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

it is a tautology and saying that it's not doesn't change that. it has exactly no ability to predict the future outcome of any election.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

You do not know what a tautology is. You do not know what a false dichotomy is. Your attempt to Gish Gallop is transparent and I won't be wasting any more time with your childishness.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

your characterization of me as childish does not change the truth of anything i've said

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is correct. That does not mean that anything you've said is true.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Do you think that argument-by-firehose until you're blocked by anyone who took time to respond to you is a sustainable rhetorical strategy?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He’s obviously arguing in bad faith, I wouldn’t bother.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

your accusation of bad faith is itself bad faith

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I know you are but what am I?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Yes, bc they do this all the time. Its to exhaust u, drag the comment train into the ditches where they may convince at least some young person that you are actually wrong if u ever once misstep or misspeak.

Ive em tagged as "russian shill." Theyre not the only ones, but take careful note of their rhetorical style, the way they twist words and come off sounding confident and "intelligent" if u dont think about what they're saying for more than 3 seconds.

Theres more of em, hence why i say again, take note of the "flavor," shall we say, of debate here. Its easier to catch the others then; they all sound the same. Often they back each other up.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

you're characterization of my actions and motive have no bearing on whether anything I've said is correct, and they do not support any of your claims. this is just posturing and rhetoric.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

i do know what a tautology is, and your link supports me.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

your accusation of gish galloping is baseless. each of my replies has been a succinct response to one of your claims. the fact that you are able to pack so many fallacious claims into one comment suggests that there is a gish gallop happening, though.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

i know what a false dichotomy is, and your link supports me

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Splitting your responses is rhetorically ridiculous.

if you don'twant to talk to me, please don't

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

“bar of acceptability” isn’t a functionally meaningful concept.

it is in ethics

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Any other vote is an admission of equivocation of the two front-runners.

false dichotomy

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Loving your dauntless energy. Nothing gives a bully the shits quite like looking them in the eye.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

always happy to be of help where i am needed.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Awesome work. I just can't be arsed with the disingenuous hectoring that passes for pragmatism