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Peacock: "Actually you do, here are some gay animals"
Fucking hilarious.
Imagine if animals had a sense of ethics lmao
Well they certainly have compassion, cooperation, a sense of fairness, social norms, etc. Whether that makes ethics is a matter of semantics, I think.
Lots of people in the world who don't speak English.
Varmaa siksi koska mä veikkaan et puhu mitään muuta kieltä, joten jos mä rupeen kirjottaa jollai muul kielel, ni sun pitää vaivautua itse kääntämään se (mikä ei tosin nykyään vaadi kun sen kaks klikkaust, sillonku mnää olin piän ni sullei ois ollu mitää tsänssiä).
Monolinguistic people rarely realise just how overtly ethnocentric they're being. Guess it's hard to see when you don't have any other languages to think in.
How hard would it have been to just refrain from the word English in that sentence? Why did you feel the need to add it? Does "animals don't speak" somehow not convey the meaning of that? (Genuine questions, not sarcasm.)
If you think that's stupid, wait until you hear about the guy who said the same thing of animals.
There are lots of parrots who can clearly utter recognisable English, so yes, there are animals who speak English. On what level can they understand the language they use, that's another question entirely. Which more or less was my point in replying to you. :)
Anyway, for those actually interested in what the current research says about how much animals can use language, NativLang on YT has an awesome series on animal speech/grammar that goes into depth on the subject. Here's the first video.
You're repeating the age-old myth of "parrots just parrot, they don't actually understand anything they parrot".
This is decidedly untrue, and there's heaps of science behind that. A lot of which I have shown you. So that assertion is proved untrue, ie "wrong".
This is also just plain wrong. It's a Greek word that comes to English from Latin. So not an English word, actually. (See my first point about monolinguistic speakers often being a bit ethnocentric. Not your fault, one language is limiting in more ways than one.)
Parrots can indeed speak, but to what extent do they actually understand the language, or have grammar? That's the video I linked in my very first reply.
This:
Can animals grammar? – introduction to my animated series which goes deep in just what the capabilities are, because there is a lot of debate in the science world.
Thoguht you might be interested, but guess you're more interested in "winning" a conversation than actually having one.
Nice try but the implication of animals being distinct was quite clear. The point is that there was absolutely no need to add the extra "English" to the end of "animals don't speak [English]", and actually omitting it would've made the sentence more inclusive and less prescriptively wrong. Even less wrong would've been to say "animals don't have language", although we're actually not a 100% on that, given that there are definite communications. We're having a hard time defining what level we're on ourself and where we came from to be able to understand a similar evolution happening on an entirely different branch of evolution.
Is it? Is it really? Because I don't think it is in any way, unless it's explicitly hate speech that you're doing in the context, and then anything in that context is hate speech. So you think no-one should ever refer to "Finnish people" for instance, because they would be doing a hate-speech on me, eh? Or that you can't talk about the differences between European and American cultures, as you can't refer to people separately without it being hate speech?
But see, they do. They do speak the same way, but language isn't just about speech. Speech is only a part of language. You seem to be having trouble seeing those two concepts as different from each other. Animals can speak, ie remember and use words.
See, this is sort of my core point that came out very strongly from just you having had to use "English" in your sentence. You're ignorant, but you don't like to think of yourself as ignorant. You're intellectually lazy, but you don't like thinking about yourself that way. So you pretend you're not.
First off, I already gave you way more information on the subject, which clearly you didn't even open let alone peruse although it's a very in-depth dive to what properties of languages we've observed animals using and how much do we understand about how they understand their own understanding. And that sort of thing. Anyway, with just 30 secs in Google you'd find the most famous parrots on the matter:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_(parrot)
You were saying that " i need to be able to communicate in some commonly understood and defined dialect, that other people can understand, such that i’m capable of understanding them as well. Parrots cannot do this."?
This must be a deepfake then
I've more than likely been using English for longer than you have, and I'm sorry to say you got it wrong again.
"Ethics" as word with the very same meaning it has today was spoken aloud long before English was a thing. It actually comes from Greek, through Latin.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/ethic
You make bold assumptions which I don't see have much scientific basis in them. Like yes, animals have their "own" ethics and one could make the argument that all ethics are subjective and no such thing exists as objective ethics. However, saying they're "wholly independent" might be a reach, since we know that we share some of our most fundamental concepts of what is "unfair" with some of our close cousins.
My point is that you should look question yourself a bit more and be open to other people actually knowing what your'e speaking about, and adding to it, instead of thinking everyone is always arguing against you.
You're repeating the age-old myth of "parrots just parrot, they don't actually understand anything they parrot".
This is decidedly untrue, and there's heaps of science behind that. A lot of which I have shown you. So that assertion is proved untrue, ie "wrong".
This is also just plain wrong. It's a Greek word that comes to English from Latin. So not an English word, actually. (See my first point about monolinguistic speakers often being a bit ethnocentric. Not your fault, one language is limiting in more ways than one.)
Parrots can indeed speak, but to what extent do they actually understand the language, or have grammar? That's the video I linked in my very first reply.
This:
Can animals grammar? – introduction to my animated series which goes deep in just what the capabilities are, because there is a lot of debate in the science world.
Thoguht you might be interested, but guess you're more interested in "winning" a conversation than actually having one.
Edit lol replied to myself accidentally. Meant to put this at the bottom end of the thread.
I love that you specifically sad Peacock. It reminds me both of the rainbow-colored peacock logo of NBC in the 90s, as well as their PSA bumper "The more you know".
Conservatives tomorrow: not eating your young is unnatural! Anyone who doesn't eat at least one baby must be punished!
Getting "The Purge" vibes from your comment...
Well the second argument is true, it's just that being gay isn't unethical. But talk to them about veganism and all of a sudden we can eat insane amounts of dead animals cause lions eat other animals too?