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this post was submitted on 30 May 2024
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cough supporting a genocide cough
Until then he was doing great yeah. Bit of a big one though.
And before you hit me with the usual I know Trump would be worse for Gaza but it doesn't change what Biden has done
1 he always supported it, so if you say "until" you just didn't care until it went hot, 2 I don't think it changes it that his opponent supports it harder, but it does speak to your options.
He always supported Israel... I think the 'until' is in reference to Israel's more recent and more blatant attack on Gaza - prior to that, Biden's support for Israel wasn't nearly as flagrant as it is now.
Like, no one would bat an eye if I told them I support my wife's decisions, but if she started breaking into the local NICUs and stomping on people's babies, my continued support for her decisions would be a tad sus. ...especially if I regularly said "honey could you tone the baby-stomping down a bit?" as I handed her a new pair of baby-stomping boots.
I'm not a both-sides'er (unless I'm talking to a trumpanzee in an attempt to steer votes away from Agent Orange). My vote is going to Biden and I encourage anyone reading this to do the same, but our complicity in the genocide on Gaza is genuinely upsetting, partly because it's complicity in a fucking genocide, and partly because this WILL cause voter disengagement and could hand that other dipshit the presidency on a silver platter.
Thank you for putting this so well.
Exactly this. It's astonishing how many people would destroy everything based on an extremely old holy war because the US didn't suddenly reverse their long established policy when the conflict heats up again.
The Trumpists are ecstatic how easy it was to flip these morons.
It’s almost as if many of these people are just virtue signaling or falling for the propoganda. I don’t see any of these same commenters so vocally opposed to any of the other handful atrocities happening around the world, and yet they fail to think the next thought of what will the situation be like if Trump wins?
Yeah, I think a lot of them are just bad actors, faking left leanings. Paid or otherwise. This one guy posts several times every single day about the war and often lays it all at Biden's feet. If he's paid, Putin or whoever it is truly does get their money's worth with so many posts and comments essentially indirectly supporting trump.
And if you dare to disagree with their bullshit of course the means you love genocide. Literally have had several commenters use those exact words.
Are you talking about me? Do you seriously think someone pays me to post rather than me just being a person who is horrified about what's happening?
Given that your last post was about Bob Dylan and it was 3 weeks ago, I'm kind of struggling to see where you got the idea I was referring to you. Makes me wonder why you thought that...
Because this comment chain stems from my reply? Not complicated. But yes my apologies for getting the wrong idea.
Then you must have not read very carefully. I imagine it's the "they accuse people of 'loving genocide'" part you were focused on?
I would never vote Trump. "Morons" for having criticism of a president supplying weapons that have killed over 10k children?
These centrist democrats are ecstatic how a substantial number of their voters have no standards whatsoever and will defend anything as long as it keeps Trump out.
Downvote all you want. If you can't criticise Biden for this you're a piece of shit
I don't need to "criticize Biden". That isn't what's happening anyhow. What's happening is that people are pretending Biden is the one doing this and threatening to destroy the United States if he doesn't stop the thing which he is not doing. Sending Israel money is a fuck of a lot older than his presidency.
Just because it's been happening for a while doesn't make it right.
Why was Rafah a red line until all of a sudden it wasn't? Because he knows it's morally wrong and will lead to a lot of death but is too much of a coward to stand up for what he believes.
Just because you care about it now doesn't suddenly make it more important than every concern, including preventing it from getting far worse.
I cared the whole time.
Honestly as someone who isn't American, this is more important to me than economic policy or whatever. I want Biden to win, Trump winning would be awful for everyone, basically worldwide. But most of all I want the kids to stop dying. I really don't think this is so unreasonable.
Trump won't be convinced. Biden might be. And this "less important" issue could still cost him swing states. I think maybe not supporting a genocide could be a vote winner.
If you're going around defending third party votes then you are doing a pretty horrifically bad job of helping Palestinians
Well if you're going around making up what people are saying then you're doing a pretty horrifically bad job of having a conversation.
Where did I defend third party votes? NOWHERE
It's hard to keep you anti-biden people straight, my bad on that comment
I don't need to torture my penis to know it would have a bad outcome to do so, kind of like giving my vote to trump with an extra step while pretending to be a martyr
Only voting for Trump is giving him your vote.
Except for the fact that we know how the system works and third party candidates have no chance
So should people who are not going to vote for a Trump or Biden actively cast their vote for Trump then? It's the same thing, after all, right?
Is not casting a vote for Trump actually a vote for Biden?
Did you fail math?
Obviously if you refuse to support the non-fascist then you're failing to prevent fascism and it's functionally the same as supporting it. You people love to pretend to not understand this but that doesn't erase it
You're kind of avoiding the question.
If I "fail to support Trump" then I am defacto supporting Biden, right?
They are avoiding the question.
I think since the scales are tipped in republicans' favour (e.g. losing popular vote but winning presidency always goes one way - Trump, Bush), not voting likely benefits them over the dems. Depending on your state of course.
Well, at least that's a cogent basis for an argument, thank you.
Though I still think this is something Democratic strategists should understand at this point -- ultimately it's Biden's responsibility to drive out voters, not play chicken with his base in defense of unrepentant war criminals.
I don't think voters can be blamed for being unable to support the politics of the party moving so far to the right, especially when Biden's presidency itself is already representative of a massive compromise by progressive voters. If Biden loses, the blame and pressure needs to be put onto the DNC and Biden for failing to do what it takes to keep their base fed, not on the voters, or we are going to end up in this same cycle forever.
A lot of our most prominent progressive representatives came into office after 2016, as a result of Clinton's failure. The party strategists understand when they lose, they do post-mortems even if they're not public about them. So I still hold that it's a valid strategy to allow democrats to fail when they end up going to far to the right, especially in such an egregious case as what we see with Gaza. Democratic support for the genocide can't continue, it's beyond the pale.
Agree 100%. I don't think the people you were arguing with really want to engage on these points, their entire position only applies in the voting booth. They're right, in pure Biden vs Trump there is only one reasonable choice. I just wouldn't gamble so hard on the population being reasonable, otherwise Trump would have never won in 2016 either.
You're avoiding the truth, not accidentally btw
Just following your logic.
I didn't invent basic logic, and no, you are not. You are making up dumb shit to try to deny basic logic.
So, for my own sake since I'm such a dumb pleb, you are saying not voting for Trump is a vote for Biden? Or is it not?
I kind of missed your answer to that.
If we know that third party candidates can never win, and we absolutely know that, then what options are left? Watching the fascist take office or voting against that.
I'm sure you have some really amazing, totally good faith arguments against this.
Christ, why is this such a difficult question to answer? Is not voting for Trump a vote for Biden? Or is it not?
Curious how you are focused on something that makes no difference or sense but completely averse to talking about the reality I just laid out. I am shocked!
According to you if you watch a murder happen you are simply protesting the victim and the murderer
This situation is more like seeing two people murdering others and getting told you're supporting the one who has killed eight people instead of seven because I'm not helping either of them kill people.
Thanks for actually improving my analogy
You watched them kill all those people and then when questioned by police you shrugged your shoulders because bOtH aRe BaD
Yes, both mass murderers are bad. The fuck kind of neolib crack have you been smoking?
I refuse to be involved, man. takes huge hit of crack, Finishes watching murder, then goes back to voting third party
You are deranged
Russian troll either being intentionally obtuse or a fool.
Voting 3rd party in a primary is throwing your vote away, plain and simple. If we want better candidates, handily defeat the GOP so that it has no choice other than to ditch the completely fascist support, or collapse. That’s the only chance we have of getting more progressive candidates to vote for. Start in local elections, move to state, then get some of these people into higher office.
Hoping that suddenly the incumbent Democrat candidate will become a super progressive person at the 11th hour is just a fantasy.
Obviously it wasn't as big an issue until October 7th. I did care, just not as much was happening
Until then he was doing meh. After that he was also doing meh, because that has been the official policy of the US for at least the last 50 years.
So you have either "meh" or "let's do turbo genocide and have oil companies write environmental policy" (not even going into all the criminality). I find "meh" to be the clearly superior option, even if it doesn't align with my politics.
But if someone criticises the "meh," this is somehow an issue with the person and not the "meh"?
You picked a funny time to start criticizing.
He was doing pretty bad up to that point, thus why his approval rating was dogshit. Gaza simply made him unelectable by those who might've been able to hold their nose to avoid Trump.