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(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2024
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I just want to join in to remind everyone that multiple things can be true at the same time.
The DNC/Biden can and should be doing better.
We only have 2 options for president. It will be one of the two main candidates because that is how the system works. Don't pretend it doesn't. You either vote for one of those two or you are ok with either.
We should be pressuring Biden to do more about both Ukraine and Gaza. Ending both conflicts and getting aid to people.
Choosing to vote for a 3rd party to protest Biden's response to Gaza/Israel is only going to help Trump in the short term. Yes, long term Biden and DNC may notice their total votes going down, but in the short term it will put Trump in the Whitehouse and now what? What did you accomplish if the DNC realizes they fucked up, but can't do anything about it because Trump is now a dictator?
Politics is a slow moving thing. Too many people expect some perfect ideal candidate or policy and won't compromise on anything. That isn't how it works, you have to compromise and slowly pull things the way you want. It doesn't happen in one election cycle.
We should have been and should be campaigning and pushing for changes to our system so that we can have better options in the future. We need to push for Ranked Choice Voting (or anything better than FPTP). And voting in local level elections to make small changes across the country. Term limits. Campaign finance reforms. Etc etc. because until we get a new system we effectively can't just vote for who we want or it doesn't do anything more than a fart in a hurricane.
I see a lot of people who are saying they will not vote for Biden because the Gaza/Israel issue. Which I completely understand. But the two truths you have to accept in doing so is that you will not be complicit in the genocide. But you will be complicit if Trump wins. Both can be true. You decide which one you would rather see. If you don't want Trump then the only option is a vote for Biden. And until we reform our voting system we don't have viable 3rd parties and pretending we do is just delusional. Look at every election for the last hundred years and you will see enough proof. It's not ideal, but it is reality. **Accept it **so we can change it together.
I would add that there ARE things you can do to help stop the genocide, that are not refusing to vote. I absolutely believe that the demonstrations, protest votes, calls to congresspeople, and so on, are part of what’s behind the changes to the US’s Israel policy recently (sanctions on settlers, pause in the weapons shipments, stuff like that - that’s nowhere near enough and no excuse for Biden’s support for Israel during the “war” and before it, but also, nothing ANYWHERE near that has happened in 75 years of consistently war-criminal support by the US for Israel).
All that stuff makes a difference and can help stop the genocide. Refusing to vote does nothing to stop the genocide and risks putting someone in office who is much much worse (actively wants to kill more Palestinians.)
Oh Trump would accelerate the genocide.
He has already said that they're taking too long and the Gaza strip makes for great beachfront property.
With Biden, at least the Palestinians might get a country of their own.
With Trump? They'll be buried under the condos overlooked by the Trump Tower.
You will be ok voting for genocide. Gotcha
We JUST explained this all to you, Zoolander. Like a moment ago. Like JUST now.
No, you think you did but you spoke in circles.
Dude just take the L
You will be okay enabling genocide+. Gotcha.
Did you reply to the wrong person?
Yes. I meant to do the person above you.
I mean this in the kindest way possible:
Do you want to feel good about your choice or do you want your choice to make a small difference?
I want wars and genocides and murders and suffering and death and sickness to be minimal or zero. I want my fellow humans to be happy and healthy and thrive. I want my labor and work to be a positive thing for society and also benefit me fairly. I want to be a part of ensuring the ecosystem doesn't collapse. I want to learn from others and I want to be able to teach others. And I have a feeling you agree with me on those things.
But I also am approaching this from reality. And I am acknowledging that with our voting system as it is today, you can either vote for 1 of 2 candidates or you don't care who wins and are complicit with their choices the next 4 years. That is simply reality.
But I also agree with you that ideally we could vote for not-genocide. I want that so badly. But we have to have a viable means to do that first. So let's work together and push for a system where our voices can be heard and can make a difference. In the meantime I'd rather see Biden in office which gives us a chance for those things vs Trump which has said and demonstrated he will try to end it.
I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm trying to make the point of reality vs ideal. And we aren't at ideal yet, so we need to work toward it.
You sound reasonable, truly. BUT, I have zero tolerance for genocide. I don't think that is an extreme position. I couldn't sleep at night because I rationalized genocide. It is that bad. I wish more people would do the same.
Not voting lets Trump do the genocide instead.
Voting is literally the least effective form of civil engagement.
But at least voting for Biden you're maybe not going to see project 2025 come to pass.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=op0yk50uMlQ
This is their plan if they win, it's in the open, and it's the end of Democracy in the United States.
Do you want to not vote? If you don't vote you might not ever vote again.
Even if you aren't lgbtq it's highly unlikely that you don't know someone who isn't. They will suffer first.
Know any women? They'll lose control over their bodies, thier periods monitored by the state
You like having sex? Don't like getter her pregnant though? Hope that you like pilling out because say goodbye to condoms. Actually that's a sin to spill your seed so you're going to jail for that too.
Say that you actually want to have a baby? Maybe you waited to do it, but now you're having trouble? Say goodbye to invitro fertilization. That's not God's way. If he wanted you to have a baby he would have made it happen. Clearly something is wrong with you. You're defective and must be bad.
Oh, you call God by a different name or don't believe? Sucks, you're going to need some corrective education. You Heathen!
It's literally good to be A Handmaid's Tale.
But stand by your principles. Maybe it won't happen here.
But what if it does?
When God Emperor Trump jails his enemies. Suspends the constitution. "Leader for life, I like the sound of that."
If voting for genocide let's you sleep at night. Go for it.
There's no vote against genocide. You vote for genocide flavor A, genocide flavor B, or you say you don't care which flavor of genocide you get.
Arguing against voting tor genocide flavor A means you support genocide flavor B, whether you want to admit it or not.
There is a vote against Genocide you are just pretending it doesn't exist.
Genocide is literally the only option. The only question is if it's slow or turbo mode.
And not voting for Biden is Turbo Mode Genocide plus Project 2025 as a sweetener.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=op0yk50uMlQ
No, what's actually happening here is that you are just pretending that a third party candidate has a chance of winning in a FPTP voting system.
Just admit that you've been campaigning for Trump by trying to get people to not vote for Biden. It's obvious to anyone paying attention.
Said the idiot that is ok with voting for genocide. 👌
Not voting for Biden supports Trump, who will be even worse regarding Gaza. So either you're a troll, an idiot, or actively want to make genocide worse?
Which is it?
That is your only defense to genocide? Sad.
Voting for Joe?
Genocide Joe? then yes, these cucks will
^ Donald Trump approves this message.
You people REALLY need a new bit. This one is old and tired.
It took fifty years of consistent Evangelical support, along with their advantage of low population density, to get to a point where Roe was overturned.
Politics isn't slow: It's glacial.
Very well said!
This kind of thinking is how you end up with only two options.
A third option emerges when enough people say "I am not voting for either of those two".
Or, it means you're not okay with either.
Canada has FPTP voting and still manages to have four federal political parties.
Australia has ranked ballots and effectively has a two-party system that hasn't changed in 80 years (though they do sometimes manage to get some independents elected to parliament)*.
I'm not saying the voting system is irrelevant. But the true obstacle to multi-party democracy is the fact that voters think in a polarized two-party way (that you are currently reinforcing).
* This is a description of Australia's House of Representives. Their Senate uses proportional representation, and does have more than two parties. And technically Australia has three political parties in the House of Representives, but two of them have been in a permanent coalition since 1946 and are often treated as a single entity, with the result that Australians consider themselves to have a two-party system.