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JD Vance opposes military aid, NATO membership for Ukraine. He's now Trump's VP pick
(kyivindependent.com)
this post was submitted on 15 Jul 2024
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I agree that Ukraine has lost land due to the US/NATO stopping Russia-Ukraine peace deals and talks in 2022.
I am anti-war, so peace deals should be at the forefront; war is a Last Resort[1].
Many on the 'far left' and 'far right' say:
[1] Papa Roach - Last Resort 2020 (Explicit) [03:22 | Rap, Rock, USA, In English, Rap Metal, Mental Health, Metal, Alternative Metal, Nu-Metal] https://youtu.be/D2Jl27lYExU
What peace deals were those? Must've missed them.
Great show; I made communities for the hosts!
You reminded me to share a video, thanks!
The peace deal where Ukraine gives up its territory.
And then Moldova, and then Lithuania, and then Northern Finland, and then I pinky promise peace.
And I was agreeing with you bud. My point is that as long as we concede, there will always be further concessions required along the road if we want "peace".
The guys at the Kremlin are bullies, we should already have learned our lesson.
Sorry wasn't intending to be a dick. I don't even remember what I wrote.
Hope you are having a good week!
not even peace deal, that was ceasefire. when all that was given up only then russians wanted to negotiate peace deal
It was a peace deal where Russia would have withdrawn to Feb 23 2022 positions, hostilities would stop and Ukraine would agree not to join NATO. Boris Johnson flew in and said that NATO would give them money to keep fighting. Fast forward two years later and we have tens of thousands more dead Ukrainians and much more lost territory, and a terrible negotiating position.
Remember Chamberlain? He made his allies submit to german concessions because that would maintain peace. Fast forward five years and we had 40+ million more dead Europeans and the continent bombed to rubble.
Is every war WW2 for you guys? Do you know the non-propaganda reason this war started?
Russian expansionism.
Thats the propaganda version. Why did russia invade Georgia? (Hint: its the same reason they invaded Ukraine)
Yeah, that's what I said, russian expansionism.
Gotcha, I can explain it to you. Russia believes that NATO expansion toward them is an extential threat to their existence. NATO and the US know this, and know that NATO membership of the countries like Ukraine and Georgia is unacceptable. So when Georgia was going in the direction of NATO, then russia invaded a couple months later. So then when Ukraine was going in the direction of NATO membership, russia invaded. You can disagree with their reasons, but that is their reasons not some bullshit claim that Russia is the next 1930s germany.
Well, Nato did expand toward them, Sweden and Finland, and what did Russia do? Did they immediately start strengthening their defences against these new Nato countries? Nope, on the contrary, the baltic bases are near empty of forces. It is concrete proof that Russia does not see Nato as a real threat, they know fully well that Nato will not be the aggressor. The whole Nato expansion excuse is the propaganda, and you are eating it.
These places should be part of our sphere of influence and we dont like them drifting elsewhere is exactly the reason for Hitler taking over Austria, then the Sudetenland, then Danzig. Its very comparable, down the the presense of ethnic Germans/Russians being present in the Sudetenland/Donbas and them needing to be "protected" being offered as an excuse.
One other given reason that people seem to forget is the published position by Putin that Ukraine is a fiction, that Ukranians don't exist in a culturally distinct way, and that their claimed history and distinctness should be erased and made properly Russian.
It's not just imperialism at that point, it's genocidal.
"look what you made me do"
What did the US do when the soviet union was going to put missles in Cuba?
Hey! These countries want to be grouped together to defend against my expansionism! Better invade them to stop them from grouping together, halting my ambitions to get the band back together! Nato is a defensive agreement after all.
You can not like their beliefs, but this was was completely avoidable, and the idea that russia invaded Ukraine and Georgia due to expansionism is a lie, and the people telling you this are aware it a lie.
Yeah, if russia didn't want to expand it's territory, it would have been avoided. However that's not the case, it's not a lie. Why would countries join a defensive pact around russia if russia wasn't eyeballing their territory?
You are just repeating the propaganda talking points. NATO knew that it was the reddest of red lines, and they did it anyways. You can not like it, but its the known consequence of the action.
You should be asking; why would NATO take a completely unnecessary action that would cause a war. But I guess if you keep looking at russia, then you wont think about what is happening.
Please cite an official Russian source putting forward that offer.
So no, they hadnt agreed to revert to the feb-22 borders, that was still a matter of contension, and Russia were pushing for Ukrainian disarmament post war (i.e. surrender).
My dispute wasnt that there were attempts at negotiation, obviously there were; Macron in particular made a big show of pushing for them. But the idea that Russia ever offered status-quo ante-bellum (as they suggested) is ridiculous.
Fair enough, personaly I find it hard to give the benefit of the doubt to people from that instance when it comes to topics like this.
This sounds like something stupid Joe Rogan would say lol
Do you watch Joe Rogan directly or do you just watch people that talk about him and tell you what to think about him?
The guy got famous making people eat blended rats. I don't need to listen to his podcast to know I don't give a shit what he has to say.
But what if I told you he sold brain supplements to make his listeners smart?
A hearty diet on bended rats made me who I am today, so I do not recommend it.
Oh yeah, the one that goes "cut my land into pieces, for oligarchs' resorts"
As a European I'm so gratefull people didn't "go for talks" on that day they stormed the beaches.. sometimes you have to actually fight for your ideals and not water them down every time they are opposed..
If you are anti-wat, you hoyos be against Russia starting them in the first place or at the very least support making it not worth it in the future. Forcing Ukraine to give up territory is neither of those.
Dear god you are tiresome