this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2024
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This reminds me of people who accuse Star Trek of being too political also.
I saw one a while back where people were getting upset that X-Men had become "woke" lol
That pissed me off soooo much. Really soured the game for me. The imagery of worshipping the founding fathers was the best part.
I know the "both sides" thing is something we're all sick of now, but there's no way Levine could have imagined what 2020+ would look like. Not to say that isn't something that's always happened, but man 2012 didn't have it to our current degree of insanity. Also I always figured the Vox were modeled more after the Russian revolution which... yeah... Stalinism was the end result, so it fits. I think that's the crux of the bad writing. You model the Vox after real world socialist uprisings, but they're predominantly black in a crazy racist planation in the sky. Now you're borrowing context from two real world things, and need to be careful about what you're saying, intentionally or not, about each of them. You have a responsibility in your messaging now. Given how it landed with you, I'd say they didn't do a great job.
Also Booker's view of it fits. He's a drunk, gambling, Pinkerton who sold his daughter. He's going to be a jaded misanthrope. Oh yeah and the part where he is also Comstock. Everything is there for us to know this is not a character we should be rooting for. But while these are facts about him, they never really make it into the "feel" of booker. So the information is there, it's just not great writing.
In contrast Elizabeth is really well done. She starts naïve and pure (if only because of the whole fucked up locked in a tower bit), and Booker does genuinely "lead the lamb astray". He's the reason she gets exposed to everything, and as a result rains fire from the sky. While we know booker is an asshole but doesn't feel like one, we definitely feel Elizabeth getting darker. I also think it's a great touch that the one that saves Elizabeth is, Elizabeth. Booker can't even take credit for that one.
I'm rambling now, I have a lot of mixed feelings on the game. It's got some really great and well done parts, and some serious blunders.
Nah, that wasn't a "looks bad now" thing, it looked bad any time. Saying that people rising up against their oppressors are just as bad as the oppressors is bullshit in any era. One can claim that that was just Booker's point of view and the game wasn't saying he was right, but the narrative did nothing to imply that he was wrong in any way, especially considering you were encouraged to mow down the slaves who were revolting just like you did the slavers previously. And having them dress like this? What were they thinking?
The line from bookers perspective is entirely appropriate (he's an asshole), the narrative reinforcing it should have been handled better. That being said, the reason the "both sides bad" bullshit is such a prevalent fallacy is that there are instances where it's true. I already mentioned Stalin, but revolutionary France got pretty messed up as well. Thats why it short circuits the whole "is it true in this case" reasoning. You can absolutely find cycles of violence in every nation, and you can talk about them in a way that doesn't cheapen the suffering that brought them on. When talking about BLM and literal nazis saying "there's good people on both sides" is bullshit. Saying "robes Pierre was kind of an asshole" is not. The game did a pretty shit job of that.
I have to be honest, I always saw the costumes as just red and scary, but I see your point. Looking at them in isolation I get it, but knowing they were mostly black didn't make me think "klan". If anything I saw it as a red cap analogy. There's probably a bunch more I missed to. Thanks for pointing me to a re-look before I go mouthing off about it some more. I definitely need to take a better look.
I can understand why some might not see it as being as awful as I do - I don't think the creators intended to make it seems as enlightened centrist as it is (The wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "There's actually zero difference between good and bad things. You imbecile. You fucking moron."), and it's probably more a case of being tone-deaf than anything else. But was a very poor attempt at the "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster" bit.
Yeah, and they cut soooo much from original concepts they had, I wonder if they would have handled it better if they didn't get to the "fuck it, we need to ship" stage of things.
Still, you can't just borrow from the real world when it's convenient for weight and impact, you owe it to the people that lived it to do it right.
Thanks for the conversation!
Wow. I couldn't even make it halfway through the first BioShock game, I found it way too tedious and boring. Like playing an Ayn Rand novel
I agree with all of this except what you said about Hank Hill... I think he would be very uncomfortable at first, then get to know them on a personal level, and then become cautiously accepting by the end of the episode.
And while King of the Hill features a bunch of right wing characters, I don't think I'd consider the show itself right-leaning. It respected its characters but also constantly made fun of them regarding their beliefs. Like when Hank would say Bobby isn't alright, I didn't get the impression that's what the show wanted to say; the show respected Bobby as much as it did Hank. And Peggy and Luanne.
It’s because of Hank’s character. Take “The Alamo” episode. That is very much a Texas thing and he will die on that hill even if it’s wrong, but it also doesn’t really harm people to the extent that hating gay people harms people.
When it comes to the issues that causes society to turn on each other Hank often takes the approach of “you need to leave people alone and let them live even if you don’t like it” tactic, because that is what he wants for himself.
Like when Khan moved in.
Similar, but also remember that by the 10th season ole Hank was a lot more open minded than when the show started lol
Because when the show started Hank was still a characture from Beavis and Butthead, and the writers grew him into something pretty awesome.
"DAMMIT! THOSE BOYS HAVE BEEN WHACKIN' IN MUH SHED AGAIN!"
Hank meets a trans woman who tries to explain being trans to him, and he just doesn't get it. He has a mental block. He insists that she's a beautiful young woman and he also likes her "brother" quite a lot.
In another episode he helps Bobby buy a bra so he can dress up as a woman.
This is the same character who had to pay a guy to buy coop beef from the hippies. He had no trouble supporting them but couldn't handle the application process.
I can imagine Hank being ignorant, stubborn, and dismissive, but I can't imagine him being directly hateful. I think his behaviour at the grocery co-op is a good indicator. Hank got along perfectly well with potheads, hippies, and vegans, as long as he was able to teach them the value of hard work.
If I meet Hank Hill I'd tell him "I ain't no woman and I ain't no man. And if I catch you running your mouth to the contrary, I'm gonna kick your ass. You can call me Mx. Mindtraveller, and refer to me with the pronoun "they". Understood?" And that would be that. He'd mess up, of course, and I'd respond with a stern look and a faint growl, and he'd get the hang of it sooner or later. The key to these kinds of men is simply speaking their own language. You have to demonstrate your rugged individualism and ability to fight for your own dignity, and you need to phrase bigotry as a violation of the social contract and of good manners.
The only people who Hank really gets mad at in the show, are those who are violent towards women and children, and those who lack the determination and good sense to accomplish what they set out to do. Hank respects people who can look after themselves.
Hell ya! You said it
Yeah I put it there with the whole thing with Kahn "So are you Chinese or Japanese". Super shit, but you know they would have happily drank with him in the alley if their personalities didn't otherwise clash.
I've long been a fan of Samus Aran!
That's the one I haven't played. Then I had to look up who this weird "Adam" character was in some of the following games...
I remember the plot was odd, but reading a random wiki didn't make the story really stick for me.
What went on in that game? The plot synopses I've found have lacked detail; he just comes off as vaguely controlling and uncommunicative.
Ugh, okay - I suspected something hinky was going on with Adam just from the summaries I'd seen, but I'm just as happy to give that game a miss now! Think I like him better as a brain in a box, but it still colors their relationship...
Oh my god, this blew right past me! What show was this?