this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2024
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Whelp...I'm out. (I expected this to happen before they said anything though, honestly.)

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Kernel mode anti-cheat guarantees I will never buy your game. Not even as a gift for someone else.

Assurances like "we will never abuse this power" are laughably unrealistic, and even if they defied the history of humanity and somehow turned out to be true, that issue is made irrelevant by additional realities:

  1. The risks come not only from corporate abuse of power, but also from vulnerabilities in their code that will eventually be exploited by third parties.
  2. Beyond the risk of nosy corporations snooping on users' private information, there are major security risks. An exploit at the kernel level means game over for the integrity of your entire system, all the data on it or passing through it, and every other system accessed from it. Bank accounts, for example.
  3. Client-side anti-cheat is conceptually wrong thinking and doomed to fail. Even at the kernel level, it's an arms race. Cheaters will find ways to weaken or circumvent it (such as running cheats on an external device that captures game video and generates input events) or even defeat it completely.

I guess this incredibly invasive and fundamentally flawed attempt to manage cheating might be acceptable to someone whose computer is used for nothing else but playing that game... —shrug— ...but for me, it's a hard nope.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Not only that, but cheating isn't exactly a huge problem in this genre, so it's a heavy handed solution already and one that's even less necessary to consider.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago (2 children)

This likely has less to do with cheating and more to do with making sure players use the game shop, whether it's blocking third-party skins or bots that automate currency grinds.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

I feel like even Valve Anti-Cheat can handle that level of concern though, no?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

I mean league still allows 3rd party skins, like the devs told the skin makers what guidelines to follow and they probably wouldn't get hit

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Cheating is definitely a problem in SF6, but it's a lot less of a challenge dealing with it due to match duration. You generally move on to different opponents fast enough, unless of course you're at the highest ranks.

Still agree that kernel level anti-cheat does nothing here, and I also won't be buying it due to that reason.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

How would cheating in a fighter even look like? Those games are mostly about reading your opponent. Unlike a fps or moba, all info is on the screen etc :/
Auto combo-ing? Auto reponse? Legit curious as i dont think ive seen cheaters in fighters before, but ive been out of the loop since sf4 haha

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

From the article:

Tony stated the following, "A lot of the cheats we see in fighting games are either about reading inputs, reading game state, or injecting inputs. They involve modifying the game binary in some way. Vanguard is really good at that, right? It's a kernel-level anti-cheat, so it can detect and prevent a lot of those things happening."

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Auto block, auto parry, auth whiff punish, auto anti-air, auto drive impact on big moves, etc.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Right, so basically things that decent skills would also get you?
Also, if you feel being aggressive doesnt help you, you start playing defensively and thats when you can strike back. Cheats or not, it still has to attack and is still stuck on the frame limits of the move right? Thats when you can strike back, no?

Im not saying cheating isnt bad, and im not saying its not annoying either, but in general fighters are different and they are completely skill based unless the cheater changes things that the other can never do.
In hindsight, pretty sure ive fought cheaters back in the day in sf4 before, but that was never that bad because i still had options to fight them back...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No, a lot of those things are simply not possible for a human being, perfectly parrying a 4 frame move on reaction is impossible.

Same with throws and other 50/50, they can defend perfectly in situations where a player is meant to guess.

https://youtu.be/7AoAZGHHzt4?si=g82On4LnowBkS2aM

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The situation where the player is meant to guess is exactly where you're most likely to get a legitimate perfect parry; that's what the mechanic is there for. Those situations are often auto timed. It's in neutral where the cheats stick out.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Except they don't guess, they get the perfect parry by reading inputs so they never get thrown either.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

No, I get that, but I was specifically saying that there will be lots of legitimate perfect parries on things like 50/50s and 4 frame moves.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

They exist, but they're so rare that I wouldn't call it a problem, and definitely not worth solving with the nuclear option.