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Nobody should be tortured for being queer.
With that said, there are some shithole countries where laws are... Well, shit. And we can't change those laws. Going there, work or fun, is a risk that I'd never assume, not for all the money in the world. Money is useless if a shitty government decides you should be executed under the charges of being yourself.
This guy has my sympathy for what happened to him, that shouldn't happen in 2024, but does he really think Qatar would admit in any way to human right violations towards a "gay foreigner"?
Not everyone can afford to not take work. Queer people are more likely to be fired and refused jobs because they're queer, and that frequently means needing to take horrible jobs in horrible places just to survive.
I don't mean this in a snarky way, try waterboarding yourself for 5 seconds and then consider if you would be in any way rational after sustained torture. Torture fucks you up in horrible ways, and I don't think we should be criticizing this man for how he reacted to the injustice he faced.
He's British-Mexican. I am sure he had several choices before Qatar to go get a job. I understand most of us can't afford to not take work, but work shouldn't come at the expense of your life. And in shitholes like Qatar, that is a possibility too plausible to just ignore.
Lastly, I understand that right after torture you're never rational. But he tried to appeal the case, and he's disappointed that they ignored the appeal. I doubt he made these declarations right after the torture. He probably made them days or weeks later, I'd assume he regained his sanity by then.
You're spending a lot of time scrutinizing the actions of a man who was just tortured for being gay. What are you trying to argue?
Nothing. I just explained my position. Which I thought needed clarification after your comment about it.
I think that's a pretty fucked up position to hold I'm not gonna lie.
I don't see why. I'm not saying what happened to him was deserved. I'm just saying that expecting a country like Qatar, with a not short list of human rights violations (among the things) , accepts they violated human rights of a gay foreigner (and yeah, this is relevant for a country that hates both gays and foreigners) is unreasonable.
You're hyperfocusing on criticizing the man who was just tortured for being gay instead of looking at the broader context of what happened, or trying to consider how you would react in that situation. Being victimised in this way is absolutely fucking horrible, and it fucks you up forever. I reacted very similarly to situations where I was victimised for being queer, and those were nothing like what this man has been through.
It's impossible to imagine what this man has been through in any meaningful way, but you should take a bit to just think about what this man went through, how badly he's been hurt to need to go to Qatar to find work, and the defeat he must feel knowing that he is forever changed by an experience that nobody will recognize or do anything about.
I said nothing about condoning, I asked you to empathize with a man who was just tortured. The fact that you're getting so upset over that says a lot about you. There's a reason you like to criticize the gay man and not the homophobic government that tortures people.
I think you're misunderstanding me explaining in detail my point of view with being upset. I'm not upset at all. As a matter of fact, I don't even know the guy, so why should I? Something that shouldn't happen in 2024, happened. And it's regrettable.
At the same time, it was something completely avoidable. So while I regret this thing happened because it shouldn't, I can't help but to point out how stupid it was to suffer this from a totally avoidable situation.
And I think it's kinda fucked up that you're clearly bothered that this man said he was disappointed with how he was treated but you don't care about how he was treated. You can say you're not upset as much as you want but the fact is that you've literally been victim blaming him for over an hour now. You can just say you don't like queers, you don't need to beat around the bush.
Mate, it really seems you are the one very bothered for the point of view of an internet stranger. Especially when all I said to cause you this is that it's unreasonable to expect that a country like Qatar accepts they violated human rights.
Nah you victim blamed a man who was just tortured. I said it was a fucked up opinion and you doubled down. All he said was that he was "disappointed" and you got mad about that for some reason. He's literally not even "expecting" anything, he just said he was disapointed.
He never said anything about expecting Qatar to respect human rights, you're just making things up to hate on the gay man now.
Earlier you said that Mexico and the UK have better opportunities for gays but both of those countries have attrocious records for gay rights. You're accusing me of "not knowing" about Qatar but you clearly don't know what you're talking about. The way you keep saying "shithole country" like Trump sure does make it sound like you just hate faggots and brown people.
That's called disappointment, that's how it works
Try talking to a queer person some time, shit is bad for us everywhere right now.
Queer people are marginalized in every country right now. You clearly aren't actually that interested in queer politics or you would know that.
Yes, I'm mad that you're victim blaming a gay man who was tortured and keep dropping racist dogwhistles. Are you enjoing telling the faggots how stupid they are?
If he's disappointed it's because he expected a different result from the appeal. Which is what I said.
You're wrongly assuming that I don't know any queer person or their struggles. But go on...
Are you telling me that a queer person has the same struggles in say, Spain, or Netherlands, or France, that in fucking Qatar where they can be executed for the sole crime of being queer? And I should be the one who doesn't know what I'm talking about?
Again, I'm not blaming him for being gay. He did a stupid choice, he went to one of the worst countries there are to be gay right now and that was very stupid. What happened to him, while despicable, was a product of his choice. Being gay isn't and never will be a crime, but I can't change the laws of Qatar, so if Qatar considers being gay a crime and you are gay, maybe, don't go there?
To me, it looks like you're just trying to find someone to direct your hate to. It's fine. After all, you're just an internet stranger so I don't harbor any feelings for you, but I think you are making a mistake here.
Can you try feeling compassion for 5 seconds?
Is feeling compassion incompatible with anything else?
What happened to this man is a tragedy nobody should experience (this is compassion).
The reason why this happened was totally avoidable, Qatar is a country everyone should avoid (everyone includes queer people too) because they have crap laws and don't care about human rights. (This has to be said because we need to educate people so they don't suffer this again)
Do you have the power to change Qatar laws so they don't consider being gay a crime? I'd love a different solution, for example one that makes Qatar a livable place for everyone, but until this happens, the best thing we can do is not going there, especially if your mere existence is a crime for them.
Edit: punctuation.
You couldn't go one post without victim blaming him. And tbh if you have to tell people you're being compassionate right before you launch into victim blaming, you are not being compassionate.
You're mad at me because you don't like what I'm saying.
And instead of trying to understand that maybe sometimes a victim can be criticised for what they suffered, so they learn from it to never repeat it, you double down on your attacks refusing to see anything wrong in this person's behaviour. You even go as far as saying that every country is the same when it comes to queer people treatment, as if Qatar was remotely comparable to any UE country in which they can live a full life like any other citizen.
I'm mad at you because what you're saying is fucked up, yes. I'm just asking you to show basic empathy for another human being.
You've clearly never talked to a queer person in the EU if you think they aren't marginalized. Now you're just denying oppression.
You really don't know what you're talking about. But that's fine, go on.
I am saying that Qatar is not comparable to EU. And if you refuse to see that, then you're part of the problem. How many EU countries can you name in which being gay is punished with death? If you really think that queer people is oppressed the same way in a democratic civilised country than it is in an autocratic regime as the one of Qatar, you are just denying any kind of progress, and hurting queer people more than helping them. You should be ashamed of even considering that.
You look like someone looking for enemies, and that's only going to hurt yourself, not me.
And now you're just purposefully twisting what I said. Again. I preferred when people like you just called us faggots, it was a lot less annoying.
Can you point out what did I twist? Maybe when I said that there are surely better places to go for a queer person than Qatar and then you said that you are marginalized everywhere? And then I pointed out that surely it's not the same a country like Spain than a country like Qatar? But you kept going with it?
You are literally attacking me for things I didn't say lmao
Do I really need to screenshot those messages? Don't make me do such thing, please.
There you go, seems it wasn't necessary after all. You're just looking for enemies. Good luck in your quest.
okay cishet
The only thing you're doing with this is generating hate towards you.
It's ironic how the queer community is fighting to not get marginalised by something they can't choose (such as their sexual identity) and you're just doing that.
You're becoming what you hate.
Haha yeah those faggots deserve hate because they're so whiny about human rights and dignity.
I mean come on. You're literally saying I'm exactly just as bad as queermisics because I'm uppity.
You don't get to use that word. We've been called queer by people bashing us, we've been called queer by people killing us, for decades. We're the only ones who get to reclaim our slurs, not you. And when you use that word while victim blaming a man who was tortured for being gay, while telling queer people we're responsible for our own marginalization, it's just a slur. You don't get to say queer any more than you get to say faggot.
You are (by your own admission) using "cishet" as a derogatory slur. That's exactly insulting someone for something they don't have a choice on.
And after that, you're just being offensive because someone on the internet didn't agree with you. Calm down a bit, breathe and maybe log off for a moment, you'll feel better after that.
You already admitted to another user that a victim can be partially to blame when something happens to them under certain circumstances.
You just don't want to accept that for the man in the article because he's "from your team".
You lost. A while ago. And you just keep your insulating crusade because that's all that remains to you.
Oh, now we’re dropping cishet like an insult?
When cishets are telling actual queer people about the oppression we face? Yeah, I'll drop cishet (derogatory).
Likewise I think your blind ignorance of how stupid it is to go to a country like Qatar while gay is pretty fucked up and gonna cost other people the same fate.