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The stuff is blowing up inside stores and buildings around innocent people. How is that targeted? Israel doesn't give 2 shits about innocent people being injured and possibly killed.
It's still a million times better than dropping a thousand pound bomb on a refugee camp to take out 1 hamas guy, and that's at least commendable.
It's worse that they're blowing up people in a country they're not openly at war with, stirring shit and risking even more retaliation.
Bombing Refugee camps is not commendable
Being better than war crime is not commendable if you're still at terrorism. Just because they've done horrible shit before doesn't mean slightly less horrendous shit should be remarked upon and punished.
How is this not super targeted? Hitting 3000 terrorists and and only a handful of civilians as collateral is exceptionally good. For you it’s probably bad anytime Israel kills one of their enemies.
So like killing a "handful" of Israeli civilians would be "exceptionally good" if the target was a bunch of IDF reservists?
I mean, yeah. The tragic answer is that civilian casualties are inevitable in war, unfortunately.
According to a UN meeting from 2022, 90% of war casualties globally are civilians. That's not to say that's an acceptable ratio, in fact it's horrifying, but it does show that a ratio of "a handful" to "a bunch" is quite a lot better than the average.
https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14904.doc.htm
It's never good, but when Hezbollah chose to restart the violence they knew it was never going to be without collateral
Israel and Hezbollah have always had forces on the border staring at eachother.
After Hezbollah broke that status quo, Israel has been threatening to invade if they didn't stop.
Can you explain why you're blaming Israel for responding more than Hesbollah for starting it?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Lebanese_conflict this article clearly contradicts your statement. And it doesn't help that Israel is also illegally occupying part of Lebanon either.
Occupying parts of Lebanon? The Sheba farms are a tiny sliver of land. Syria even has a better claim to it than Lebanon.
Which of my statements is contradicted by this?
Ahistorical
Hezbollah could just chill and not attack Israel and this wouldn’t happen.
Argue the opposite and surf the wave of dialectic to the truth.
Something we can agree on.
Traditionally, a targeted attack minimizes collateral damage to almost zero. Do you have stats on who was killed/injured? I do know 2 children were killed. I'm sure they were hard-core Hezbollah.
Doing this kind of attack indicates Israel didn't care AT ALL who they took out. Ah, much like their reactions in Gaza.
3000 pagers exploded. All had small amounts of explosive like 20 g. You can watch videos of them exploding in traffic, supermarkets, etc. people next to them remain unharmed. So you have 3000 explosions all over the place including crowded areas. Two dead children is a quota of 1500:1. That is exceptionally good.
Compare that to the Hezbollah rocket than killed 11 Druze children in Israel.
Wow only 2 dead children. Amazing, let's celebrate!
Members of Hezbollah endanger their families willingly.
I'm glad we can punish the children of criminals for their parents' crimes.
Children suffer from all kinds of stupid decisions their parents made.
Ah, so we're allowed to do anything bad to someone if their parents do it first?
Parents, who are also combatants in terrorist militias, have a duty to not endanger their children by handing them tactical communications equipment.
Are you both siding this shit? Let me be clear, Hezbollah, Hamas AND Israel each have done awful things to innocent civilians in the name of revenge. How hard is it to say enough is enough and want innocent civilian populations ON ALL SIDES to not die? Children born into these situations, and many adults have zero opportunities to get away from the violence. They should not die due to factions and government decisions.
I agree that this war should end. It doesn’t simply end, if Israel stops military operations though.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule80 you know International laws exist for a reason, and Israel clearly violated many international laws, which by the way were created to prevent such events like WWII.
You know Israel can find a peaceful solution if it only permits the establishment of an independent state of Palestine. But instead they prefer to continue their warmongering politics.
Why was there no independent state of Palestine established in 1949-1967?
You think that's some kind of gotcha. It isn't.
Would you care to elaborate?
The unsaid implication of your loaded question is that the absence of a Palestinian state is "the fault of the Palestinians". The further implication is that "Israel has no partner for peace" even now. Basically, the implication being we need to keep doing whatever the Israeli right wants in perpetuity.
If by some miracle you're not just parroting right wing pro-Israeli talking points, please elaborate what the hell you mean with your question instead.
This is primarily a call to learn about the history of the conflict.
Palestinian political strategy and tactics have been moderately successful at best, IMHO. It’s worth knowing about them and their history. Black September and the role of Palestinian groups in the Lebanese civil war are also worth learning about to better understand the current situation.
Nice word salad. If you want people to learn more, say that (ideally also pointing to specific resources) instead of derailing discussions with open ended loaded questions.
Salad is good for you. I won’t provide sources as you will dismiss anything I link anyway. You have enough terms to start googling.
Fascinating lack of good faith. Paired with your penchant for open ended leading questions, I'm ready to make the call: you're trolling.
Edit: just to clarify by "word salad" I meant calling the Palestinians, i.e., a stateless, disposessed, oppressed, subject to apartheid, and genocided people... "moderately successful". While at the same time making the assumption your interlocutor does not know the history. I mean, to be as polite a Greek as I can: go to the port and come back to tell me if the boats are bobbing.
I already debunked this to you in another thread
https://lemmy.world/comment/12431134
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
Nakba was in 1948. 1949-1967 Israel did not occupy the West Bank and Gaza. Why didn’t Palestinians establish a state then and there?
Why Jews didn't forgive Nazis in 1946?!?
Jews founded a state of their own in 1948. Forgiveness of others is independent of building a safe home for your people.
On a land that didn't belong to them. And in the process killed 15000 Palestinians and expelled 750.000 to create their dream ethno state. Prior to 1900 very few Jews were living there and the local population was mostly Arabs.
The League of Nations created a mandate for the foundation of a state for the Jews in the Levante. So there’s a basis in international law for it.
Most of the land on which Israel was founded in 1948 was state owned land and land owned by Jews they had purchased.
No Palestinian would have lost their land, if the partition plan would have been accepted. Instead they chose war and lost it.
Prior to 1900 the land was only sparsely populated in the first place.
More than 800,000 Jews were expelled from Arab and Muslim countries in the region and had to flee to Israel. It was a population exchange like India and Pakistan around the same time.
And then you wonder why Arabs weren't happy. Would you be happy if someone comes to Germany and tells you from now on, 55% of Germany belongs to Turkiye?
But arguing with you and trying to show you the other point of view is like fighting with windmills.
A huge part of the land for the Jewish part was the Negev desert. And as I said most of the land in general was state owned. Lots of Jewish immigration was expected, which would quickly change the population disparity as well.
You can read the old documents about how they arrived at the plan on the UN’s website.
So you are trying to tell me that if you were on the other side of the fence you would be happy if some colonial Western countries gave your land on a silver platter to an ethnic group, consisting of new emigrants who were not even living there before 1900.
I have all the compassion for the Jews and what they experienced in WWII. But this doesn't also give them a carte blanche to expel people from their own homes and declare Israel as an ethno state.
The reality is that Israel has killed and destroyed a lot more civilians and their infrastructure compared to any of their proclaimed terrorist neighbours. And then it is just logical to ask who is actually worse, the so-called terrorist organisation, or the state of Israel of their indiscriminate killings. And believe me, through the years Israel committed well documented plenty of human rights violations, war crimes, etc.
You know if you disregard international law so blatantly, you are creating a dangerous precedent and other countries would do the same. The whole idea of those international laws is to prevent large scale conflicts and to minimise the civilian casualties. But nowadays no one bats an eye if Israel breaks another one.
And this double standard, is infuriating. Because if you are a war criminal, you should be put into jail, no matter your country of origin, skin colour, religion, etc.
And the same applies to Hamas and Putin, of course.
Instead we have Israel trying to sabotage the international criminal court, tapping phones, blackmailing prosecutors and on top of everything else the US is considering sanctioning the prosecutors just because they dared to issue an arrest warrant for Bibi and Gallant. That's how rotten our world is.
Take a look at Syria or Yemen, if you get the chance. Israel is the strongest military in the region and has good civil defense infrastructure as well with bomb shelters in every house. Hezbollah and Hamas could just not attack Israel and they would be left alone.
The way Gaza and the West bank are left alone, behind big walls, with plenty of checkpoints, restricting the free movement of people and stock with severe economic sanctions and so on. Oh what a paradise on Earth.