this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2024
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In 2000 they 100% did and we're still paying for that shit.
Not true, Gore won Florida in 2000 but it was stolen by the supreme Court in favor of Bush https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot
Even with all the bullshit the Court pulled, Bush ended up winning Florida by such a razor-thin margin that it would have only taken 0.5% of Nader's Florida voters to tip the election to Gore.
Third-party voters gave the GOP the opportunity to steal the election.
But not the near majority of conservatives. The five hundred voters are entirely to blame.
Nader got nearly 97,421 votes in Florida. After the Supreme Court stopped the count, Bush won by 537 votes.
The environmentalist voters stopped Al fucking Gore from being President.
You need to self-examine and understand the wrong headeness of this kind of thinking.
No liberal or progressive will ever win another election if they adopt this mindset.
You know what makes them win even fewer election? Allowing fucking Donald Trump to win the Presidency.
Vote dem in the general election, and change the party in the primaries. It's literally the only path leftward in our system of government. Doing anything else moves the government further right.
And you know who did that? You know who allowed that?
Democrats allowed that. They did it by blaming third parties before any votes were cast. They did that by blaming Muslim and Arab votes who didn't want their friends and families to be bombed by US tax payers. They did that by telling voters they "had no other choice" when they clearly, clearly did.
If you are going to own this now obviously broken and defunct rhetoric it seems like you are committed to, then you own this loss.
If you can't change your approach and recognize the changes that need to be made, you are the primary thing aiding and abetting fascism in this country, because Donald Trump could not have won without Democrats and their apologists online being committed to this now obviously failed strategy.
We've had a 2-party system for over 200 years. You aren't changing that by believing super duper hard in a third option.
What you have to do is change the parties. Party direction isn't set by losing general electionsm It's set by choosing better candidates at the local level and in primary elections. Voting for a third party or choosing not to vote at all will never, ever move the country in the direction you want. It's impossible.
The GOP is cancer, and right now the Democratic party is chemotherapy. It sucks, the side effects can feel worse than the disease, but it's the best way to fight and survive.
Voting third party is going to a spirit healer. It's playing make-believe and letting the cancer spread.
You threw the election with this approach. You need to understand that.
This exact approach to rhetoric and myopic view of what is possible just handed the government over to fascism.
Name one national election in the history of the US where voting third-party resulted in the goals of those voters being achieved.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1860_United_States_presidential_election
Republicans were a third party to the Democrat-Whig two party system. Republicans weren't on the ballot across the south.
This is why the left keeps losing. We couldn't unite behind Nader or Stein or any of our other candidates.
The problem isn't that people voted for Jill Stein. The problem is not enough people voted for Jill Stein.
The left is so broken in this country that we can't even get a candidate to 5%! And yet, we're supposed to stop Trump?
You know what 5% of the electorate could do?
Ensure the GOP loses every general election and participate in primaries to move the Dems to the left.
That's how you make change in our system. Not by throwing away votes.
People have been trying to move the Dems to the left for decades, and look at what we have now.
They've been trying by bitching about the party every couple years when the primaries they don't participate in select the wrong candidates.
the dems haven't had a primary since 2008
Primaries during incumbent sessions are never serious for any party, so 2012 doesn't really count.
They had a very long primary process in 2016, but Hillary won. Yes, the establishment wanted her, but she also won more primaries than Bernie by the time the convention came around, so the super delegates deciding not to overturn the will of the primary voters is hard to argue against, even though I preferred Bernie.
2020 had a primary season, and Biden won.
2024, they had an incumbent, and Biden didn't drop out until like 2 weeks before the convention.
And there were down-ballot races in the primaries endo one of those years and more. Did you vote in all of them, or are you just bitching because the people who do get off their ass and participate don't do what you want?
you made an excuse for 2012, covered up the systemic corruption in 2016 and 2020, and made another excuse for 2024.
There were primaries every one of those years. There was no rigging of the primaries. If people had voted differently in them we'd had different candidates.
Once again, did you put in a minimal amount of effort to educate yourself on the candidates and participate, or did you just whine about it after the fact?
What about the other primary years when the important stuff is really decided? Biden, Obama, and Clinton didn't just magically appear and become contenders to the Democratic primaries. They spent decades as party members, working their way up from the bottom. You think Bill Clinton would've been President if he hadn't been Governor? You think he would've been Governor if he hadn't been Attourney General? You think he wouldn't have been Attourney General if he hadn't previously run for the House?
There were primary elections every step of that path, and he won them all. That's how he became Bill Clinton. And why did he win that first nomination?
He was a coordinator for the McGovern campaign and clerked for Senator Fullbright.
People don't magically get nominated for the Presidency. It takes decades, and the people who will be nominees in the future are running for county clerk, state rep, or city council now. But if you only show up to vote in general elections every 2-4 years, or only vote in the Presidenial primaries, you don't get to bitch about who gets selected because you wait 20 years to give your input on a candidate.
Take part in the process and give your input when and where it matters or stop bitching about nobody listening to you.
this is a lie, by the dncs own admission
That's 100% false. Did they have preferred candidates? Absolutely. Did they keep people from voting for other candidates or discount their votes? No.
In fact, in 2016 when it was "stolen" from Bernie, the only way for Bernie to win would have been the superdelegates ignoring the results of the caucuses and primaries and installing Bernie as the candidate, which is exactly what everyone implies they did for Clinton.
It's like there's a recurring theme here: those who actually get off their ass and vote have more power to steer elections than those who bitch and moan about everything and stay home pouting.
Donna Brazil would like a word. as would Michael moore
this is the whole ball of wax
Are you suggesting that famous people from outside the party should be placed at the top of the ticket?
Good leaders spend a long time building experience. Someone with a strong legislative, judicial, or executive record should be the candidate. Not some reality TV star or shitty actor. We've done that enough in my lifetime.
So yeah, the candidate should be someone that's been with the party for a long time, and that's why it's so important to get involved and vote in local primaries and elections so that the kind of candidate you want to support is the one that's been working their way through party leadership for 20 years.
this is exactly who my candidate is not.
saying it doesn't make it true.
no..you're making a leap of logic
stop bitciing about others discontent
They made their own bed. I don't want to hear a word out of them that isn't working towards a realistic, attainable solution.
Voting in the general election against the worst party and voting in the primaries to make the other party better is a solution.
Choosing not to participate and then whining that those who do participate are making all the decisions is not.
hasn't worked for me yet
How many primaries have you voted in? Do you engage in local politics and primaries to support progressives early in their careers to steer the party left, or do you show up every 4 years when CNN is talking about your state's primary?
If you do the former - great! Encourage others to do so, and understand that it takes time to change a party's direction. And in the meantime, support that party in the general elections because they're still better than the alternative.
If it's the second, then get more active.
I vote for people I want to win. if you want to fix your party, have at it.
If you want them to win, you should encourage them to caucus with and run as a member of a party that can win.
Any effort put into 3rd parties is a waste of resources because they can't ever win in our system of government. You can wish for things to be different, but wishing doesn't accomplish anything.
you're the one who brought up so-called third parties.
get off the internet
That was my first presidential election. Naive year 2000 me thought "Oh wow this is a huge obvious problem, and Australia already fixed it! It'll be a part of the Democratic platform by 2004."
To this day, I vote for any Democrat who supports ranked choice voting (or any clone-independent voting system).