Bluesky Post (this was also posted on twitter)
I was hoping to find a statement from the aggressor, but it seems to be too early.
this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2024
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Technology
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It's it anti video games to point out something that is actually happening? Just because you love the company doesn't mean that any bad news is an attack against the industry. Valve doesn't want to moderate their forums, it was bound to happen.
I am a big GOG enjoyer myself, but when I need to use steam for anything, I have never encountered such content. Perhaps there is such content in private or otherwise not very visible spaces (such as user profiles), where they will not get reported, but that is true for any site with user content. I call BS on this being an issue.
Really? Because in my experience you have to wade through racist, homo- and transphobic, and misogynistic shit the second you foolishly open the discussions page on any game that features black or brown, LGBTQIA, and/or female characters.
As I said, I have never seen anything I would consider extremist myself. Though from your reply, I get the feeling the issue could be an unreasonably broad definition of extremist content on your side. That or I just happen to not visit games with such discussions.
"It's okay that it's a racist, sexist shithole full of threats of violence because I, personally have never seen that so it must not exist. Additionally, as I personally have never seen it, you must have a ridiculous view of what extremism might be... in spite of a US senate report that goes directly against my point."
For the people downvoting me: https://www.isdglobal.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/02-revised-gaming-report-steam.pdf
That's all valid as saying to the US is "a racist, sexist shithole full of threats of violence" because those things exist somewhere in the US.
I guess Lemmy is too by that metric and you're still here.
I guess it depends on the game, extremely so. Two main factors I can think of: Whether or not the game has been picked up as an object of hate by the "anti-woke" content mill, as well as the average age of people who play the game.
Just for kicks I skimmed the BG3 forum and indeed there's this recent post. Apparently unwanted exposure to Gale's gayness can be solved by not interacting with Gale, who would have thought and that's a perfectly valid solution for OP, but some users in the thread are clearly out for blood. Not getting terribly much resonance, though.
EDIT: Apparently OP has changed the "accepted answer" to one of the worst comments in the thread. SMH. Comments proceed to tell OP they're confusing friendship scenes for romance ones.
And that's like one thread in pages upon pages of threads. People predictably talk about general gameplay stuff (The Gale thread can actually be considered a gameplay question), mechanics, bugs, the usual.
Bonus: A thread on Musk wanting to buy Hasbro for D&D. Now there's plenty of stuff D&D players have to say and criticise about Hasbro, them having clear language about the misogyny etc. in the first edition is not among it. Licensing terms are a thing which can get the community riled up, but the "backlash" against inclusivity is, as usual, manufactured, and from what I see the thread is mostly Musk bashing. Thinking of, Shaun recently published a video on the manufactured outrage around Stellar Blade.
Oh, the average age thing. Yeah don't go to the LoL forums or whatever though without checking I expect them to be full of talk about the current meta. And people unironically using "gay" as an insult in , presumably because they're too young to even know their sexual orientation.
Overall trying to portray steam like some kind of second kiwifarms falls flat on its face for a very simple reason: Even if (and I don't think that's the case) there would be no moderation at all, the majority of users on steam will be talking game mechanics, about bugs, because they're there to play a game and the reason you find yourself interacting on those forums is because you have something to say, or ask, about the game. That kind of talk will always drown out the angry goblins.
I guess you wouldn't see it as extremist, either, if you were one of the peeps getting fussy about a black woman in a video game....
Much of that is just bots and if you spend any measurable time on the internet you start to ignore stuff with variable capital letter words and emoji spam so it's not outside of the realm of possibility that the person you're responding to, doesn't see that stuff. I don't really either. My brain auto filters paragraphs of anti woke/racist rhetoric like pop-up ads.
You've never seen a Pepe meme on Steam? I'm not kidding there either - if you dig into that ADL link and follow it to the research, they have a list of top extremist and hateful symbols on Steam and the swastika is number 2 at 9 percent of detected symbols. #1, representing something like 55% of extremist and hateful symbols their automated detector found on Steam was Pepe.
If you dig into their research, it's mostly private user groups and profiles. Game discussion pages are moderated by their respective devs or whoever the devs appoint but user groups are moderated by their owner/appointees and user profile pages aren't really moderated at all unless you're doing something actually illegal in the US.
So unless you go looking at the user profile pages of white supremacists, or go searching for white supremacist user groups you won't run into much of it.
Yeah, that is my point. How can people be radicalized by something they don't see?
Also, as non American, I find it mental that pepe memes are considered hate symbols now.
If you have Nazis in the place they just wait until they see someone expressing opinions that's bordering on their side of the political fence and they initiate contact to try and comfort them in their thoughts.
How to radicalize a normie: https://youtu.be/P55t6eryY3g
So, any platform that offers unmoderated DMs should be banned? Or how exactly do you want to solve extremists reaching out in private?
Who said anything about DMs? Make extremists feel unwelcome (contrary to what's going on on Steam's forums) and they'll leave, you don't need to scan DMs, you just need to delete extremist content instead of leaving it up like is happening now.
Wait, so your point is that we don't need to moderate DMs (and by proxy other spaces that users don't see), just make them feel unwelcome in the public ones.
And earlier in the thread, when I ask where the extremist content is, I and Schadrach agreed it is mostly places people don't see. Which you didn't object to.
So isn't it job well done, Steam is as is should be? Or what is the issue here?
Pepe isn't hate speech. It was re-co opted by the creator and I often see it in queer friendly gamer spaces. If your threshold for hate speech is a cartoon frog, you may need to recalibrate. Most people do not see it as such and do not use it as such.
The ADL still does for whatever reason
They aren't the sole authority on the topic.
Clearly, but the articles floating around recently do treat them as the sole authority.
All you need to do is join a Rust server and then look at some profiles.
If you only check the forums for technical questions then you'll dodge it, if you look at the non tech sections for certain games (with diversity or ambiguous message like Hell Divers) then it's something else.
Care to provide a link? I just skimmed Helldivers 2 discussions a bit and found nothing extremist.
Edit: The worst I found so far is this, which is pretty dumb but not really at the level of "dangerous", or where it obviously needed to be removed.
Devs and publishers are mods of their forums, if it's too much for them they can add community mods or lock their forums (like some do).
This is what manufacturing consent looks like. This increasing barrage of news about a topic, most of which is based on nuggets of truth but stretched so thin you can see your hand on the other side. The idea is to make you believe something needs to be done just with the sheer volume of time spent talking about something.
The reality is that the ADL is a Zionist front that is full of shit even on their best day, and they want control over Valve the same way they have the CEOs or owners of Reddit, Meta, and even smaller players like Bumble under their thumb. You watch, they will pressure the government to act and then when the squeeze is coming, offer Valve an easy out by joining their special advisory board on tech.
So instead we should let racists, misogynists and lgbtphobes make people believe that something needs to be done to protect white men from oppression?
What are you even talking about?
Of course! Big government needs to save us from our 1st amendment rights. Thanks so much. I don't think I'd have figured it out without your help.
1st amendment applies to public spaces, not a forum owned by a private company.
The 1st is there so the government doesn't step in and create laws prohibiting speech. It's there to stop the gov from stifling free speech. It's not there to give you a location to use free speech.
if it's the government that is doing the censoring, against the will of both the users and the private company, how does it not apply here then?
Seems to me it's quite public because anyone can access their space by simply creating a free account. You've seemingly equated the letter of the law to the spirit.
edit: What the above poster isn't legally understanding is quasi-public spaces. Ethically, they're simply failing entirely.
That's not the definition of the word public in this context. The sidewalk is public space, a shopping mall is private space, one is managed by the State, the other by a private corporation. Go and do Nazi salutes in a shopping mall and sue them when security throws you out and you'll understand the difference.
There you go again with the letter over the spirit. You'd have us replace judges with computers.
They mall doesn't have to tresspass a person that's doing Nazi salutes. If you'd the faintest concept of the ideology of justice as implemented in the US you'd understand the difference.
I'm explaining how the first amendment works to you, that's all. Freedom of speech doesn't apply in spaces owned by private corporations, they can limit your speech in any way shape or form they want as long as you're on their turf.
You keep explaining the letter of the law, poorly, to someone that understands both the law and justice system much better than yourself.
Don't think you do buddy! Do you think you can sue a shop owner if they throw you out because you're saying things they don't like?
If you know so much about the first amendment and it doesn't apply to Internet forums and platforms, how come you're not rich from suing Twitter or something?