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Actions that someone takes after committing a barbaric act do not undo the damage that was done.
Neither does his death.
Those two individuals are still dead, and he needed to face the ramifications for his actions.
Which no one denies. Th ramifications should have been life in prison without a chance for parole.
I don't oppose the death penalty because nobody deserves to be killed. I oppose it because our justice system isn't up to determining who does and who doesn't.
There are too many arbitrary factors that make the difference between death penalty and life. The race, sex, and gender of the victim and the accused; the political ambition of the prosecutor; the geographic location of the crime; and the resources of the accused.
And this wonderful system wastes millions and millions of dollars that could address some of the root causes of crime and violence.
Does killing him bring back the people he killed?
Does 'rehabilitating' him bring them back?
He committed horrible crimes but killing someone for murdering people doesn't help.
Neither does letting a killer walk free, who could potentially lose his shit and kill again.
Is anyone advocating letting him walk free? This is a false dichotomy.
I haven't seen anyone advocating for letting him "walk free".
Anyone can lose their shit and kill.
Those aren't the only options.
Does imprisoning him? At what point does this line of thinking just reduce down to "we shouldn't punish anyone for anything"?
If you murder a murderer you're not reducing the amount of murderers.
But last time I talked to you you were advocating the poisoning of a puppy so at least you are consistent.
If you murder a murderer you’re not reducing the amount of murderers.
If you kill two or more you are.
Touché.
An executioner is not a murderer if the condemned is guilty.
Just because the murder is state-sanctioned does not mean it's not a murder.
That's literally what it means, actually.
You don't get to randomly redefine words because you don't like what they mean for whatever reason.
Do you believe any and all state-sanctioned murders are justified and legal?
all state-sanctioned murders
No such thing.
Sorry to invoke Godwin's law here, but are you telling me that during the Holocaust that the Jewish people weren't murdered?
Are you telling me Ukraine and Palestine civilians aren't being killed?
Depends. There were plenty of interpersonal killings of Jews during the early stages of the Holocaust that would easily count as murder. The state-sanctioned death camps were not murders, even if it's also true that murders took place within the camps.
Are you telling me Ukraine and Palestine civilians aren't being killed?
Of course not. Being killed is not being murdered. There are Ukrainians and Palestinians being both killed and murdered right now, but no western understanding of the word "murder" can accurately be applied to an active war front.
Ukraine is being invaded, it's not a war front.
Who said anything about murdering him? The state cannot commit murder. There's an argument to be made that Dorsey did not deserve the death penalty (I don't think he did), but this is a dangerously reductive view.
But last time I talked to you you were misconstrueing my argument about society's responsibility to preserve its safety, so I suppose you are too.
The state cannot commit murder.
That's a really bad line of reasoning.
Did killing him bring them back? No? Then what's the benefit?
It better be a pretty big fuckin benefit if you're okay with our government having the authority to kill citizens. Cuz you know, the government can totally be trusted to not abuse power and authority...
Every government is imperfect.
No human being should be executed by the state.
There is no difference in justice by locking them up for life, and more importantly it costs less, and can be undone if an injustice is later identified.
Executing him accomplishes nothing. Families of victims have long said that executions did not make them feel better. In some cases, they have campaigned to stop executions. More death solves nothing, and we as humans can and should be better than that.
The death penalty is wrong. Period. There are always other solutions. That's where the justice system fails.
Yes, maybe he did deserve to die. But I'll always oppose the death penalty on principle.
It comes down to what you feel the purpose of our justice system is, including capital punishment.
My personal opinion is that, despite its name, capital punishment shouldn't be thought of as a punishment. I feel that we should use the death penalty or life in prison when we feel that a person can't ever be allowed back into society, and it's more of a societal judgement which of those two measures we take.
I think in all cases, if we could heal a person so that they'd never repeat a crime again, that's the better course. The reality is that most really horrible crimes stem from some kind of mental illness. If we could rehabilitate the people, it seems like that's better for everyone.
Yes. When I think of a just system it's more like...
Person commits crime and goes to rehabilitation, if they can't be rehabilitated then they are imprisoned or exiled, if they are still a threat there that's when it may become necessary to execute. It's not a punishment, it's a last resort for the safety of others.
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.
-JRR Tolkien
