this post was submitted on 01 May 2024
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[–] [email protected] 78 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Yup and these 60 companies are using their insane profits to lobby the government to ensure nothing ever changes.

Yay capitalism.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Lobby? They basically own government. I don’t think people realize how big business’s only fight is amongst other big business. They don’t fight with law makers, they make them.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

Yes. Lobby. That is HOW corporations own the government.

They pay people off. They even plant them. Either way they are using their huge sack of cash to manipulate the world around them to their benefit.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If you don't want the world to drown in its own filth, it is your personal responsibility to boycott everything these 60 firms produce. Since at least one of them is an electronics company, that means I'm allowed to say you're responsible for this mess because you're using a computer.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

Yes, we are all responsible for using toxic products that we need to survive in the modern world. More responsible then the companies producing these toxic products, who should be required to research non-toxic alternatives. Let's all band together and take a step back from the information age. Surely that will fix the problem.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In our little town, we have a shop that is plastic free. We refill everything we can there: detergent, dishwashing soap, shampoo, deodorant, shampoo, shaving cream, you name it. On top of that Ive minimized as best I can (although a work in progress) my use of single use plastics.

Plenty of people around me just don't give a shit. It's cheaper and easier to just go to target and get it or order it off of Amazon.

Too many people using the excuse of "I can't be perfect, so it's not my responsibility" as a reason to do nothing.

Don't be those people.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Too many people using the excuse of “I can’t be perfect, so it’s not my responsibility” as a reason to do nothing.

I mean, pure convenience really is at the heart of it. The worst thing to happen to bottled water companies was pipes and if Nestle or Ozarka could ripe out everyone's plumbing they'd do it in a heartbeat.

Its very cool to have a shop that's plastic free in your little town, but I'll be damned if I can find an equivalent in America's Third Biggest City of Houston, TX. At least, not one that's 30 minutes drive.

Don’t be those people.

At some level, you have to concede its the structure and not the people. I don't think anyone really wants to be hauling 40 lbs of trash to the curb every week. But when we're inundated with it, avoiding waste becomes a job in and of itself.

It shouldn't have to be a struggle to avoid generating trash.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The worst thing to happen to bottled water companies was pipes and if Nestle or Ozarka could ripe out everyone’s plumbing they’d do it in a heartbeat.

I'm not defending these companies, just pointing out that using the companies as an excuse to change nothing about your own habits makes no sense.

Its very cool to have a shop that’s plastic free in your little town, but I’ll be damned if I can find an equivalent in America’s Third Biggest City of Houston, TX. At least, not one that’s 30 minutes drive.

Right in the center of Houston. Although having lived in Houston for a number of years, I understand that you could still easily live a half hour from here. But if you work in downtown, it's always the option to grab it on your way home.

But, also, keep in mind that you are right now trying to make excuses rather than look for solutions. I'm not saying you have to shop at one of these places, I offered my experience to demonstrate how, even when it's available, people would still rather buy the convenient disposable crap.

At some level, you have to concede its the structure and not the people.

It's both. This is my point. Too many people don't want to put in any effort to make things better, they just want to point at corporations and say "not my problem." It's how they deal with the cognitive dissonance of claiming to care about this issue, but at the same time not doing anything about it. "Well, what can I do?" A lot. You can do a lot. If you frequent that store in Houston, and encourage more people to, they can open up other locations make it even more convenient for more people. We all have to shift our behaviors to make it work.

It shouldn’t have to be a struggle to avoid generating trash.

Also agreed. However, again, not an excuse to change none of your own behaviors. You can both try to do better and push for better policy.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (17 children)

Right in the center of Houston.

Which is 30 minutes drive from anyone outside 610.

But if you work in downtown, it’s always the option to grab it on your way home.

That's true, assuming traffic in that area isn't miserable. There's also a WholeFoods in the Galleria Area that has had similiar services, but I don't even try to get near it during rush hour, because its pure gridlock.

Too many people don’t want to put in any effort to make things better, they just want to point at corporations and say “not my problem.”

I don't think that's true. What I have found to be the case is that independent action is expensive and time-consuming. You need some kind of business model to make it work, and that quickly turns "community effort" into "full-time job". And if you've already got a full-time job, you're not going to be able to afford to sidestep all the businesses on every corner offering you the easy way out.

At some level, it absolutely is a corporate problem. Because even if you do succeed at a local level, you're working in the scale of gallons while they're working in the scale of mega-barrels. Systematic problems require systematic solutions. It can't just be half a dozen people on one street in Houston changing where they shop.

You can both try to do better and push for better policy.

Okay, but then when do you have time to do anything else?

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[–] [email protected] 67 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The two tobacco companies Altria and Philip Morris International combined made up 2% of the branded plastic litter found, both Danone and Nestlé each produced 3% of it, PepsiCo was responsible for 5% of the discarded packaging, and 11% of branded plastic waste could be traced to the Coca-Cola company.

Imagine how much plastic waste could be eliminated if Coke and Pepsi just went back to glass bottles?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Imagine how much plastic waste could be eliminated if we just boycotted these companies.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (5 children)

You are going to have a much harder time convincing people to give up on their soda addiction than you are finding a way to get the soda addicts to get Coke and Pepsi to switch back to glass.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Perhaps so, alas. And the rates of obesity and diabetes continue to rise. sigh.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That’s the thing about addiction. You keep using even though it’s really bad for you.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I did notice Altria / Phillip Morris were also in that list. :-(

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I haven't had a drop of either in 20 years and the mess has only grown larger.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Is glass litter better?

We should also account for extra emissions due to higher weight and lower density in transportation. Glass is significantly heavier, and you need more of it per item for the same strength, so you'll be moving fewer total bottles per truckload.

Aluminum is also recyclable, durable, light, and cheap, though I don't know if aluminum litter is better than plastic. I assume it is since I've not heard of micro-aluminum causing environmental damage (yet).

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Aluminium and glass is close to infinitely recyclable.

Better yet, glass bottles can be reused up to 7 times.

But it costs more than a returnable plastic bottle. Which obviously costs more than a sturdy as a trashbag plastic bottle.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Glass isn't easy to recycle because just a little bit of the wrong stuff can mess up a batch.

It is reusable, though, and you can shatter it and get aggregate for concrete which is getting rare these days as all the obvious places to get sand from, such as deserts, have grains that are way too round. In that case it doesn't matter if there's the occasional mug or drinking glass or window pane in the recycling, concrete doesn't care.

PET is actually excellent for recycling provided that you actually recycle it, i.e. have a deposit scheme that works. Like the German 25ct/bottle one. Provides a very clean recycling stream, the product is light and doesn't use much volume at all when shipped to the bottling plant (they're expanding the bottles on site), etc. Also, nature apparently is learning how to break up PET.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

Glass litter? Not necessarily, but glass is essentially infinitely recyclable, unlike plastic.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Unfortunately the coating they put on the inside of alu cans is pretty terrible so they are slightly less good than glass in that regard

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago
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[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Don’t worry about these big guys. The straws are gonna save the planet.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Said no one ever.

People so mad about straws act like you cannot possibly work against a problem in more than a single way.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (5 children)

The problem is we are not trying multiple ways. We only try the ineffective ones to avoid trying the effective ones.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And by "we" you mean actually "corporations"? Of course they aren't willing to blame and fine themselves for saving money.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

By "we" I mean the governments we elect.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Which are basically controlled by the corporations. My point is that there are many people who want to do more and several groups trying to make it happen. They aren't up against an easy fight. So when a small win happens like plastic straw bans, maybe we can want more without dismissing it as bullshit.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

You could always not buy their completely non essential products, but suggesting that rarely gets a good reception from the "obsessively whining about straws" crows.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh yay, blame the consumers not the ones making the trash, worked so well the past 50 years

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Nah consume consume consume, shirk blame

Actively reject education, then refuse any blame. That sounds like the best plan!!

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

Or we can acknowledge that our society is not conducive to the type of living required to effect change in the way necessary to solve this. That boycotts do not work, and historically the best course of action would be to put controls on the corporations backed with actual teeth. Blaming the consumer is ineffectual if the goal is to actual solve the problem. But works if the goal is to defer blame to not have to fix the problem

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If everybody individually behaved correctly, we wouldn't need any laws.
But as the entire human history has shown us, that is not the case. Which is why societies have passed laws even before recorded history.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (8 children)

That's what's always a bit maddening about these conversations. It's not like companies are just shredding plastic into the atmosphere because they're cartoon villains who love evil.

They're making cheap plastic shit because we love cheap plastic shit. They're making this stuff in response to explicit consumer prioritization of low costs above all other factors. If consumers broadly demanded soda in glass bottles and expressed a willingness to pay the extra cost that this entails, every soda company would use glass.

I'm not saying that you individually should be blamed for all environmental pollution, but we have to realize that companies are responding to the exact same incentives that we do. They're obviously operating at a much larger scale, but they use cheap plastic shit for the exact same reason we do. If you're looking for policy solutions, a great option would be to introduce an externality tax on plastic so that this environmental cost is actually factored into the production and end price and can fund remediate the damage, similar to carbon taxes. Of course though, the moment you say the word 'tax' people's brains completely shut off, so this is probably a non-starter.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (9 children)

I don’t think consumers in general have a direct say in the matter though, regardless of their impact. Blaming every individual for it is inefficient, and ultimately is only useful for deferring blame when you don’t want to solve the actual problem.

If you are interested in an actual solution you go to the source, and regulate the corporations.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You could always not buy their completely non essential products

I've been trying this for decades, but it hasn't put a dent in the global growth of waste.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Yay, all the ones to their eyeballs in regulatory capture.

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