this post was submitted on 12 May 2024
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nuanceposting (lemmy.cafe)
submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

Important clarification/FAQI am not calling to coddle or excuse the behavior of bigoted men in any way!

I am calling to be kind and understanding to young men (often ages 10-20) who are very manipulable and succeptible to the massive anti feminist propaganda machine. Hope this clarifies that very important distinction. :)

Very good comments that express key points:

Edit: This post has now been removed and restored twice. I want to encourage you all:

Be decent to one another

I think this post is a valuable thing given the current state of the Fediverse, please don't fuck it up for us by being toxic in the comments.

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[–] [email protected] 118 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (6 children)

there is only one truth, and it is that there is no gender war, only misdirection from class warfare that has monetized and monopolized even our interpersonal, romantic, and sexual connection.

when people don't have problems, you can't sell them solutions.

[–] [email protected] 76 points 11 months ago (3 children)

The shackles of sexism, racism, and homophobia do not simply fall off when you accept class consciousness. These are still fights for awareness which must continue to be fought. Otherwise, we risk allowing toxic mentalities into our midst, which will only serve to alienate and expel our minority brethren.

The cages built by the state which cordon us off from one another exist in the mind, but they are very real in impact. We must fight by destroying the cages in each of our thoughts, and pass our knowledge to others so they can do the same. That is the only means to stand as one.

Let's also not forget that there are very real shackles placed on many groups - many real cages - which we must work to destroy as well.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 11 months ago

Here's Orwell in "Homage to Catalonia":

"There were perhaps a thousand men at the barracks, and a score or so of women, apart from the militiamen's wives who did the cooking. There were still women serving in the militias, though not very many. In the early battles they had fought side by side with the men as a matter of course. It is a thing that seems natural in time of revolution. Ideas were changing ready, however. The militiamen had to be kept out of the riding-school while the women were drilling there because they laughed at the women and put them off. A few months earlier no one would have seen anything comic in a woman handling a gun."

This was in an overwhelmingly leftist camp. Orwell sees glimpses of an anarchist collective based on mutual aid popping up. Yet, sexisim clearly persisted after a period where it had been pushed aside.

These issues don't go away just because people become class conscious.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Even if we take gender-based issues as very real (which is often not quite true since we target a demographic of literally half the planet, which is never representative), they come second to the class warfare.

A poor male worker holds way less power than a rich businesswoman.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago
[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If the only tool you have is a hammer, it is tempting to treat everything as if it were a nail.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (4 children)
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[–] [email protected] 76 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Social media doesn't often reward kindness, but that's what is needed. Show kindness to young men, when you can. They need better guidance.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 11 months ago

So much this. ❤️ But it’s tough.

I am making this post coming out of a comment section where women expressing their most personal and horrific experiences are getting majority downvotes, while men are yapping on and on about “the problem with feminism these days” over them and getting no shortage of likes. It’s frankly disturbing to witness.

I am trying to be kind with this (and all) posts because I recognize it is what is needed. But I also fully understand the plight of other women who get frustrated or even lash out.

Take a deep breath. Listen to one another. Be kind.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 25 points 11 months ago

no u ❤️

[–] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago (18 children)

Those young men should also choose the bear. If we explained that to them, and why, maybe the next generation wouldn't need to.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Honestly I think if you gave them the same choice, they'd pick bear too. Bear or a man who has on average 75% more muscle mass and 90% more strength than you. He is also 93% likely to be gay. Now you might be in the forest with your nice and normal gay neighbor and have a totally lovely time! Or you might get one of those gay priests who just want to rape you repeatedly. Which do you pick? Man or bear?

That's a lot closer to the choice women are making.

Source on average difference of male to female strength https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200205132404.htm

[–] [email protected] 35 points 11 months ago (1 children)

What the fuck is any of this

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I think you're misunderstanding the point of the meme then

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Not really. It's saying to soften the language. I disagree. I say explain the language and why that level of anger is justified. The boys will quickly realize and be told that it's not about them. They'll likely also be just as mad at the s*** that goes on.

Kids are smart. If you tell them that women would pick a bear because a small percentage of men rape a large percentage of women, they'll get that.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 11 months ago
[–] [email protected] 28 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You are all arguing about bears, but I am over here day dreaming

NSFW

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Uhhhhhhh.....what a horrible day to be literate

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

Nothing like some vintage copy pasta to sear your brain

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 11 months ago

Hopefully people see this and stop posting ragebait 🙏

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago

OK, seriously, I thought I've spent enough free time on Lemmy telling you to watch Barbie here for some of you here to, you know, actually watch Barbie.

So let me be clear: it is ultimately the Barbies' complete disregard for the Kens' feelings that led to the Kens being poisoned by the idea of the Patriarchy and all the subsequent mess in Barbieland, so way ahead of you on 2, to reiterate, what the Kens did was wrong, but you have got to take a nuanced approach to these things.

Also, on 1, all I said was that unlike the meme I feel that bears are terrifying, and then some weirdo came out of the woodwork and got really angry and start talking over me and calling me a dumbass and I was making it all about me somehow. The irony was so palpable I was at a loss for words.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (21 children)

This whole thing is completely blown out of proportion. The fact that young disenfranchised men are getting upset that women they don't know are choosing a bear over them says that they are taking it personally when it's not.

If you're a young man, and the people around you have decided they would rather choose the bear over you, that's a sign that you need to sit down and take a hard look at yourself about why they would do that. What have you done that would make them decide that. And if you extend that feeling to random women that you don't know, then you need to sit down and take a hard look at yourself why you feel that way. You don't know the lived experience of random women. You don't know why they would choose certain death over you. Taking it personally only shows your immaturity. You can't control how other people feel. You can only control yourself. If you want to understand why women around you would choose the bear, maybe try asking them nicely and actually listen. Empathy works both ways. Showing some will encourage people to reciprocate.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

What? Men are going to adopt shitty beliefs and exercise their privilege no matter what and nothing can be done about it. /s

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (7 children)

The gamification of social media means any attempt to draw a bright line of social conduct will just end in people deploying that rule in the most cynical context.

"Believe all women" means we're going to slap generic women's faces in our Avis and lie out our asses.

"Let people enjoy things" means reframing the most deplorable and nakedly hostile conduct as some kind of secret fetish you have to support.

"Protect Kids" means posting baby pictures under every comment and saying "This is who you're talking to".

"Act like an adult" means getting CP in your DMs.

When its all a fucking game and you score points by causing other people mental anguish, the only thing any sane healthy person can do is log off, touch grass, and get as far away from the hellscape that is social media as possible.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm not gonna lie, the grammar of that first sentence is quite confusing to simpleton like me.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (7 children)

Could someone explain number 2 to me? A lot of big words, and I have trouble to understand what it's trying to say.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 11 months ago (7 children)

It's claiming that pushing men out of civilized communities, spaces and conversations ultimately leads to them embracing more accepting alt-right ideologies and movements.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Young men are much more likely to be non-conforming to sexist cultural/gender norms and stereotypes, which often leads to them being ostracized more by general society and makes it easier for grifters (like manosphere influencers) to take ahold of them and radicalize them with alt-right and/or extremely misogynistic beliefs.

There are plenty of amazing feminist role models, but the right's form of propoganda is so much more enticing because it tells you that everyone else is the problem and you're superior to others, rather than ask you to give a shot at understanding reality like leftist influences do. That goes with anything on the right, fascists are a lot more motivating and good at gaining/rallying radical supporters because it's so much easier to get people on your side if you're allowed to lie about everything. So naturally, impressionable – and extremely vulnerable and emotionally volatile – young men gravitate towards the extreme negative influences due to how our society and education is poorly set up to prevent that.

And in this case how sexism and toxic masculinity is deeply ingrained into our society that so many of these young men are made to feel like they're "not real men" by those around them, it really pushes them towards this even more. Rather than reject the idea of a "real man" or a "real woman", they embrace them even more and convince themselves that they are the realest men, and OTHERS are pathetic.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago

i know ur meming but it’s good to know what doublethink is and how this is not that :)

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

POST RESTORED THABK YOU MODS

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