Force the meme, force it, force it.... FORCE IT, DAMMIT
this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2024
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So you're saying you'd rather have Corporations and Billionaires continue to rob the working class?
I'd rather my worker's rights didn't come with a side of authoritarianism, but maybe that's just me.
There is nothing authoritarian about workers owning the means of production, and for the record you live under the authority of Capital everyday.
lemmy.ml is run by marxist-leninists (hence the .ml), which is an explicitly authoritarian ideology, and for the record trading one form of authoritarianism for another is not a worthwhile improvement.
Yes it is, because authoritarianism isn't the end goal of ML. You readily acknowledge that we currently live under an authoritarian Capitalist system, can you tell me what the end goal of this system even is? I mean most workers are one missed paycheck away from homelessness. While vast sums of wealth are horded by the top 1% of society with the only end goal being more wealth being extracted from the working class, with no actual goal besides more profit and greater wealth. The end goal of Marxist-Leninism is a classes society where each person contributes what they can to society and receives back what they need to live a fulfilling life. They are extremely different.
Alright, firstly, I think you're mistaking me as advocating for capitalism. I'm not. Whilst I'm not a fan of labels (they're so easily contorted away from their original meanings by those seeking to undermine the ideologies they describe), I believe "Socialist" would reasonably describe my beliefs.
Secondly,
[...]authoritarianism isn’t the end goal of ML.
I think you've got that backwards. Marxism-Leninism starts with democratic means, then implements an authoritarian regime.
[...]can you tell me what the end goal of this system even is?
No, because there isn't one. Capitalism actively punishes any form of forethought or long-term planning.
[...]The end goal of Marxist-Leninism is a classes society where each person contributes what they can to society and receives back what they need to live a fulfilling life. They are extremely different.
In theory, maybe. Just like in theory Capitalism self regulates through competitive pressures, or whatever nonsense it is that Capitalists spout.
I'm more concerned with actual effects, and empirical evidence than hypotheticals. Authoritarian regimes invariably turn oppressive, one way or another.
Capitalism does not self regulate, it consolidates. You should try reading Marx and Lenin's actual writings, you seem very earnest and dont come off as a troll. There are multiple free audio recordings on YouTube of their works. Humanity must escape the all powerful driving forces of the profit motives Capitalism enforces or perish off the face of this earth. That process if it is to take place will appear extremely authoritarian to those who value profit above all else.
Capitalism does not self regulate[...]
Correct, hence "In theory" and "nonsense" in the words surrounding that phrase.
You should try reading Marx and Lenin’s actual writings[...]
I certainly would like to read at bare minimum some of Marx's works, but ADHD is really not conducive to being able to read even mildly long texts, like I couldn't even get all the way through Einstein's Why Socialism?.
There are multiple free audio recordings[...]
Audio is even worse on that front, as I'll end repeatedly tuning parts out and have to go back and listen to those parts again, which just isn't good for motivation.
[...]you seem very earnest[...]
I like to think so at least. I just don't like when people fall into the "A is bad, B opposes A, therefore B is good" trap.
Humanity must escape the all powerful driving forces of the profit motives Capitalism enforces[...]
Agreed. Wholeheartedly.
That process if it is to take place will appear extremely authoritarian to those who value profit above all else.
They may attempt to paint it as such, but it need not actually be so. Even if that process were to take the form of a violent revolution (which, to be clear it doesn't need to.)
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You'll be hard pressed to have your average person online casually use the Engelian type use of authority in authoritarian. The authority of work or authority of capital isn't what they're thinking. What is being imagined is almost always despotic tyranny.
Same thing with dictatorship. Most people will see that word and not associate it with a philosophical concept that includes a kind of rule by a class of citizens. They'll use it synonymous to despotic tyranny.
Outside .ml at least, and especially on .world.
You gotta remember your on Lemmy.cuck.world
TURN LEFT MF'ERS!
If anyone wants to read Marx and understand what people mean exactly when they say workers create value, but are intimidated by Capital, I recommend starting with Wage Labor and Capital It's a short, concise work by Marx specifically made for people without any background knowledge, unlike the Communist Manifesto.
remember that a company can do fine without a CEO. they can't earn shit without workers.
Go back to bombing Ukraine and killing minorities commie
I don't think you understand communism if that's what you think the Russian oligarchy is.
The problem is every form of "communism" implemented to date has immediately become a authoritarian dictatorship. One could even say "communism" is just snake oil used to convince the populous to allow the installation of authoritarian dictatorships...
By "every form," you mean the ones in the 20th century which were not actually communist because there were power hierarchies and class levels.
Çatalhöyük was an actual communist community. There was no division of labor, no ruling class, apparently not even division by gender.
It was around for 900 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87atalh%C3%B6y%C3%BCk
Communism was figured out thousands of years before currency, let alone capitalism. The problem isn't communism, the problem is some people hunger for wealth and power and are allowed to accumulate both.
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as opposed to all of the anti-authortarian capitalist, aristocracy, fascist, monarchist, oligarchy, plutocratic, feudalist and herrenvolk societies?
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Flip it around.
They were authoritarian dictatorships and kleptocracies that paid lip service to communism.
The USSR was the closest to communism, but of course all the power and money got pulled to the top and the people got to live with the nominal structure of it.
Little bit like the US… a capitalist country with a free market, but again, all the power and money get pulled to the top to keep their bank accounts safe and the people get to live with the fallout of market volatility.
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Remember: When you make fun of rednecks, you make fun of Dale.
I prefer hillbillies to rednecks. Rednecks have "back the blue" stickers while hillbillies take pot shots at any car with federal plates. Rednecks have lifted mall crawlers while hillbillies have an old busted Tacoma or Geo Metro. Rednecks have pets, hillbillies have raccoon and possum neighbors who hang out on their porch together.
Originally rednecks were the hillbillies that wore red neckerchiefs at the battle of Blair mountain. They fought against Pinkertons who were hired by the coal mines to break up the rednecks who had taken over the company property.
That may have changed since the blue collar comedy tour, but originally rednecks were the works seizing the means of production.
Jsyk, looking up "etymology redneck" indicates the term comes from sunburn on the back of manual laborers' necks and was in use for a bout a century before. I am always glad to see the West Virginia coal mine wars brought up tho so kudos.
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And Dolly!
Dolly's a hick. Rebecca's the Redneck.
I'm not well versed enough in the various cousins of hillbillies to differentiate. /s
Who's Rebecca?
The Miley Cyrus to Dolly's Hannah Montana.
Raise hell. Praise Dale.
I'd rather have the workers own their own mean of living (house).
Yes, they're not mutually exclusive. In fact owning the means of production would give the workers more financial stability and might lead to better home ownership.
Look around the status quo, how many people do you think can afford owning a home in the current situation?
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