this post was submitted on 27 Jun 2024
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Kbin/Mbin (and possibly others?) definitely have the edge here since those platforms make votes public (only admins can see them on Lemmy). So, if you want to confirm what I'm saying here, go view some of these posts from Kbin/Mbin.

Every time one of the "usual suspects" says stuff like this in the comments, there will later be posts detailing how Biden is doing (or at least earnestly trying to do) exactly the things they're saying he needs to be doing (oR ElSe i WiLl noT voTE anD NEithER ShoULD yoU!!!11!!). 100% of the time, those posts are downvoted by these same "usual suspect" accounts.

What gives? They have very strong opinions about how he should run his administration, so you'd think they'd appreciate him doing what they've been so helpfully suggesting. Unless....it was never about the issues at all.

That thin veneer of concern they're hiding behind is not as thick as they think it is and is quite easy to see through. Now you know where to look.

Edit: Please don't name and shame any specific users. That may violate the community or LW rules. We all know who most of the "usual suspects" are.

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[–] [email protected] 70 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Although I'm not a huge fan of old guard centrists like Biden, I will admit that he's been a decent president. While not enacting the kind of transformative change we need, he has been effective at making improvements to the law and advancing the interests of the people, in spite of pre-Civil War levels of partinsanship and fighting.

Internationally, he has handled the Ukrainian War pretty well by making the entire endeavor a joint NATO action from the very beginning. He's positioned the US as a member of a powerful alliance, rather than a bully that tries to dictate everything. He should have lifted restrictions on military aide earlier, etc., but mistakes are always going to be made in complex situations. His weakest point is Israel, but looking back I'm not sure what he could have done to stop the war. Netanyahu sees this war as the vehicle for his political survival and refuses to listen to reason. He's advanced a reasonable peace process multiple times and has even gotten Hamas on board (with a lot of help from Egypt, Qatar, and others, of course). In the end, he can't force Netanyahu to do the right thing.

And of course, it has to be said that the alternative is worse across the board on every single issue. We still have a need for the president that Obama looked like he was going to be before taking office, but it just isn't going to happen this time. Please just vote for Biden, especially if you live in a swing state. It's what's best for the country.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 8 months ago (4 children)

You're going to explode the fediverse with a take this grounded in reality

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

His weakest point is Israel, but looking back I'm not sure what he could have done to stop the war.

Are you kidding?

He could have not used his veto power to prevent the United Nations from intervening in the war, and he could have not given Israel munitions and billions of dollars of war funding.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Netanyahu has consistently said that the war on Hamas would continue even if Israel has to do it alone. I don’t agree with continuing to arm Israel, but it’s not like they don’t already have more weapons and ammunition than they need to continue to wage war in Gaza.

Netanyahu doesn’t even seem to care about the Israeli hostages. The war keeps him in power, so the war will continue. Biden can’t force him to make a different decision.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago

With what supplies? We're shipping them everything from bullets to tank rounds. We're still holding the bombs back, and suddenly there's a lot less news about block busters being dropped in Gaza. Almost like they depend on us for their supply.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 8 months ago (13 children)

Prior to 1993, Canadian politics was dominated by two parties: The Liberals, and the Progressive Conservatives.

In the federal election of 1993, the government of the Progressive Conservatives (who had been in power for 9 years) was so unpopular that their vote collapsed and they won only 2 seats in parliament. The Progressive Conservatives were never again a political force in Canada.

In the same election, the votes for minor parties like the Bloc Quebecois and the Reform Alliance surged, with the Bloc Quebecois becoming the new official opposition party with 54 seats in parliament.

Is it wrong for me to hope something similar will happen in the US elections?

[–] [email protected] 39 points 8 months ago

It's not at all unreasonable to hope for it, but you need to see sufficiently low support for the party in question. That does not look even slightly plausible in the upcoming US election. It might happen in the upcoming UK one, and you can see clearly the difference in polling and reporting

[–] [email protected] 35 points 8 months ago (2 children)

No, but it is foolish to think that it begins at the Presidency. Historically, new parties have emerged from grassroots movements, beginning with local offices like school boards and city councils. Otherwise, they have been splintered from existing parties.

So do those things down-ballot instead.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago

Yeah, people talking about proportional representation seem to turn a blind and eye to the Senate, which has had principled socialists and libertarians in its seats. It's not a healthy state of affairs, but if you wanted to send a message to the Democrats theres a proven way to do it in house and Senate races, trying to make big swings at the presidential level is just idiotic and betrays bad faith.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yeah we can limp along with a major party and a minor party for a couple decades. We have before.

There will never be more than 2 for more than 1 election cycle. Ross Perot couldn't do it. Pat Buchanan couldn't do it. George Wallace couldn't do it.

Teddy Big Brass Balls Roosevelt couldn't do it with with his Bull Moose Party as a two term ex president. If he couldn't do it, nobody can.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago (8 children)

Wrong? No. But I would warn, as a fellow Canadian myself, that it didn't totally fix the problem.

Pierre Polievre (current right wing leader who walked with the Trucker convoy) is probably going to win at least a minority, and the more right wing parts of my family can't hide their hope he "finally helps the majority, rather then all these minorities getting help."

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago

It has before. We no longer see the Whig Party on the ballot. I'm also hoping we can do it again.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 8 months ago (5 children)

I have not been so sure in my vote in any prior election. 2020 I had no doubts, but then trump launched a coup and Biden turned out to actually have a few progressive bones in his body. Biden has straight up impressed me with his accomplishments with the inflation reduction act, chips act, infrastructure bill, and various other accomplishments.

Trump is scarier now than he was in the last 2 elections. He has a roadmap to dismantle our democracy and leave us rocking from crisis to crisis like Argentina or Brazil. I think there would still be elections, but the corruption would blow off the charts and millions will suffer needlessly.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 8 months ago (9 children)

Also, even if he's not, are you really stupid enough that he'll be exactly as harmful to those causes as Donald "My Draft Platform is Literally 'Droppin' the Pretense we Doin' Fascism Now!'" Trump?

There are only two ways you could genuinely believe that, conspicuous use of the lense of privilege, and just being the most politically unaware moron this side of a YouTube comment section.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 8 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago

Agreed, but I"m not looking to name/shame here (that may also violate the community or LW rules).

The point is we all know who at least a good portion of the "usual suspects" are.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

First person I blocked, but wasnt/won't be the last I'm sure

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 8 months ago (7 children)

Always have to include the caveat "he's trying" to make it not a lie lol.

Neoliberals are great at trying real real hard and never getting there. Kind of like how he "tried" to convince Netanyahu to stop committing genocide and then ended up sending him billions in aid.

Nah, I'm done voting for anyone taking AIPAC money. I'll submit a blank ballot before I vote for any of those pieces of shit.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 8 months ago (2 children)

You could just say you don't understand how federal laws are passed in the United States and I'm sure someone would you the ELI5.

This video is a pretty great introduction to how laws are passed.

Once you understand that hopefully you'll understand why Joe Biden can't just do all the things he'd like to.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

Dang that's some irony right there. Imagine lecturing soneone on how laws are passed and not even knowing what a veto is. And trying to be condescending on top of that.

The president has powers to veto laws and also, as commander in chief he has power to delay or direct aid even when congress goes around him.

Presidents have witheld munitions and aid in the past, this isn't a question.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Biden couldn't veto anything related to Israel if he wanted to. All Republicans and enough Democrats would vote to override it instantly. Because Congress is the problem. But sure, continue to waste effort and be counterproductive.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Grow up.

I'd vote for a plank of wood before Trump, and it's not because I believe the plank of wood is doing the right thing in Gaza. Someone is going to become president of the United States, and unfortunately for now that's either a Republican or a Democrat. Trump will be worse in Gaza, in addition to being much worse on a whole bunch of other issues.

Ultimately I'd like to see many parties, no more electoral college and ranked choice voting. But I live here and now, so I'm going to vote for the option that's least harmful.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago (6 children)

I, too, am a very left leftie. So I, too, will be doing checks notes exactly what the most fascist people want me to do. A corrupt Christofascist regime taking control will help us do a socialism. I am very smart.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Just admit you have no fucks to give to those that live here in America and instead, will side with people in a country you probably couldn’t have pointed to on a map a year ago and save us all the suffering of having to constantly explain how things work to you.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I’ll submit a blank ballot before I vote for any of those pieces of shit

Yep, and that’s about as much weight anyone should give to your comments. That sums you up perfectly.. “a blank”

Better this than planting sunflower eh?

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 8 months ago (3 children)

I’m not American so I’m not going to tell you who to vote for, but don’t pretend that Biden cares about Gaza, even if Trump is worse. You can draw the line wherever you want, compromise whatever you want, but stop lying to yourselves.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 8 months ago (7 children)

If all we can expect is genocide, we have to consider other interests. I don't think Biden wants dead Palestinians, he just isn't willing to toss Israel out in the cold and that is better than cheerleading the bombs.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Honestly, neither do most of the people using “GeNoCiDe JoE”

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago (4 children)

I still chuckle every time I see that posted unironically, as if it's a nickname that's going to stick.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago

Bless their hearts, they're trying to make it stick, though.

I just immediately block the people that use it unironically. They're either so lacking in nuance that I don't care what they have to say, actively shilling, or are useful idiots who drank the Kool Aid (or some combo thereof).

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

He's literally negotiating prisoner exchanges and secured their natural resource access, plus reopened the path to Gaza being able to reopen its international airport by striking similar agreements over other ports of entry.

Signed, a Palestinian American who's done with fauxgressives Kiffyeh washing abdicating their duty to avert fascist takeover.

Edit: on further consideration, I think either Olive Washing or Melon Washing would be a better term for it, Olives because they're a staple in Palestinian agriculture, and Melons because it's apparently become trendy to reference water melons as an innuendo for Palestine because censor algorithms no likada flag or more overt shows of support.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago

Is one of those "usual suspects" here in this post, arguing with every pro-Biden comment?

(forgive me for asking, but we DON'T "all know who most of the "usual suspects" are.")

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

100% this. They think they’re not being seen for what they are, but it’s all right there. Plain as day.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (2 children)

In my experience, any criticism of Biden is immediately met with "but Trump is worse!!!" Rather than any current argument as to why Biden isn't actually that bad.

If the responses WERE generally any Biden I'd still dislike Biden but I wouldn't bitch so much about him. Every once in a while you find someone making an effort to defend Biden in good faith and, great. We can disagree on the dude, that's fine. But if I can't criticize Biden without immediately being redirected to talking about Trump, I'm going to keep talking about Biden. If the best case scenario is we're stick with this guy for another 4 years I would appreciate some pressure to do better.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (2 children)

There's a shit storm of astroturfed anti Biden sentiment. You know this, everyone knows this. Knowing that, you should know that there aren't enough hours in the day to eloquently frame and debate the benefits of Biden. To people who most likely aren't even listening. At a base level, Trump WILL be worse on all issues. It's a fact. And if Biden doesn't win. Trump WILL. Also a fact.

It's not a great argument. But it's the only argument necessary. The fact that you act wounded or surprised by this seems very disingenuous. Why are others obliged to spend their time explaining public knowledge to you? Not to knock those that do just that. It is important after all. But where's the entitlement coming from.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (9 children)

There are plenty of reasons why Biden isn’t that bad. And I’ve seen enough people list them that I don’t feel I should waste the time. The information is very easy to obtain…

And Trump IS worse. News flash… BOTH things can be true.

Now in MY experience, most… and I said MOST criticism about Biden is about one single thing.

gEnoCiDe.

And it’s mostly from people that have no history of showing any support for Palestine prior to several months ago. Also, it’s from people that have no viable solutions to the question of who we should vote for if not Biden.

Because not voting doesn’t cancel an election.

And you’re absolutely right. He 100% should do better. And he should be held accountable for the things he could have done better- in whatever way is fair and just- But when you’re in the middle of a hurricane, you don’t bitch at FEMA for not sending people to drain your flooded basement. You endure what you have to to get through it.

We need to get through this.

Now…

To the actual far lefters, I’d say:

We are risking losing our entire democracy. This isn’t something to hold hostage in a negotiation over foreign affairs. I’d suggest you take this shit seriously- the genocide will be MUCH worse due to willful inaction. And you won’t have anyone to blame but yourselves.

To the “far lefters” that are actually MAGA bots here to disrupt our election:

You’re not fooling anyone.

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