And that is why she isn't a serious or viable candidate.
And she never has been.
this post was submitted on 18 Jul 2024
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If she doesn't take the AIPAC dollarydoos and sell her soul she'll never win is what you mean?
Pretty much, yeah. For multiple overlapping reasons (FPTP, media, campaign funding). Which is why reforming the system is critical.
Kind of makes it weird that so many people on Lemmy are like “the system is broken therefore I’m not voting even if the outcome is Trump coming to power and making it 10 times worse.” In my type of logic, “the system is broken therefore let’s reform the system by doing X Y and Z” would be more sensible, to the point that it kinda calls into question their motivations behind saying the first thing, but what do I know.
In my type of logic, “the system is broken therefore let’s reform the system by doing X Y and Z” would be more sensible, to the point that it kinda calls into question their motivations behind saying the first thing, but what do I know.
And the way to fix the system is by empowering the people that have broken it down over the years?
When the DNC took away Bernie in 2016 they destroyed the entire argument of "changing the system from the inside".
Rewind to the civil rights movement
Some black activist who is 1,000% outside the political mainstream, but wildly popular within all segments of the American populace runs for the nomination of one of the major parties, gets FORTY THREE PERCENT OF THE VOTE (and only that low because the establishment cheated its ass off)
Is the right answer:
- Holy shit that was almost a RADICAL change to the system, the anti abortion people took 40 years to get their radical change enacted and all it took for this one was like a popular guy and a moderate amount of internet organizing. We can fuckin win this. This is 10 times better than EITHER grimly voting for some third party who will never get more than 2% of the vote, OR grimly voting for whoever the DNC’s favorite is even though it’s horrible. Why, I bet even the establishment candidates will take notice of that and start pursuing all these worker-focused policies once they’re in office, not that the media would take any notice of it if they did
- Man fuck that let’s never try that again, or even vote at all
?
Sorry are you saying the guy that spent his entire life claiming the system can be changed from the inside and got blocked using dirty tactics proves your point? "moderate internet organizing" is a slight understatement here.
Let me correct you
Holy shit that was ALMOST a radical change to the system but then the Democrats sabotaged it because they would rather let Trump win than give up their duopoly.
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Shes on enough ballots to get past the post. Maybe it's time democrats did it our way since your way keeps producing brain dead geriatrics.
It doesn't matter if she's on the ballot when fewer than 2% will vote for her. Ballot access isn't the problem, getting your type candidate nominated by one of the two most voted-for parties is. And that will only happen by running and voting for those candidates in the major parties primaries.
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It's true. She's speaks truth to power and is therefore kept out of political discussion.
Israeli military is funded by the US. They are given weapons. They are given logistical and intelligence support by the US. They are given diplomatic support. They are trained by the US. In almost everything but name, they are a US force. They would not exist without US support.
Joe Biden can tell them what to do at any time, and he chooses to ok the genocide.
That’s an interesting take considering where her campaign money comes from.
Truth to power? Shes Putin's number one fan, and has been for a decade+.
Jill Stein is a bought and paid for russian asset. Her only role is to cause turmoil in american elections however she can, by hopefully siphoning off left leaning votes in key states. She did just that in 2016, a year after this putin meeting, where her vote totals in key swing states were higher than the total margin for Hilary's loss. Her efforts were part of why Trump won in 2016, leading to all the chaos and turmoil we have today.
Her trying to cause division and sow discord in the left wing during this election is the exact same thing she did in 2016 and 2020.
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The president can't just unilaterally withhold Congressionally approved aid. You may recall Trump was impeached for doing exactly that.
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Reagan did it with one phone call to Begin, calling the invasion of Lebanon a Holocaust. While Biden privately supported it in 1982 saying he would go further than Israel.
Source on the Reagan phone call to Begin: https://www.nytimes.com/1982/08/13/world/reagan-demands-end-to-attacks-in-a-blunt-telephone-call-to-begin.html
Source on Biden saying to Begin he would go further: https://theintercept.com/2021/04/27/biden-israeli-invasion-lebanon/
Because something that happened 42 years ago is relevant today.
Gee, I wonder of the world and politics and power dynamics are different today.
Hmmmmm 🤔
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I wish there was a simulator that we could put people in. It’d be good for Lemmy argument participants, too.
Like Jill Stein puts on the helmet, gets on the phone with simulated-Netanyahu, he laughs in her face and says okay we can wait until November, suits me fine. She cuts off weapons, congress explodes, it’s all over the news, some Israeli soldier talking about how his unit got decimated because they didn’t have the right stuff (all horseshit of course), Biden’s polling drops 5 points, Stein hits the button to switch the nominee to Kamala Harris, the polling drops even more, congress overrides Biden and sends weapons anyway, Trump wins the election with 350 electoral votes and sends Israel 20 strategic bombers and a carpet-bombing configuration of munitions with a note that says “have fun ❤️”, simulation ends. 0 points
(I’m not trying to give Biden a free pass on support for Israel. I think regime change and support for the ICC would be a good way to go; we can defend our “ally” (for some fuckin reason) while still prosecuting the members of that ally’s government who are killing children. I’m just pointing out that, of course, Stein’s argument here is laughably naive.)
She would designate AIPAC correctly as a foreign entity and suddenly nobody really cares about israel anymore. We would never allow Russia or China to influence American voters with this kind of insane propaganda apparatus.
Biden controlls all "leverage" israel has over him
I’m gonna make a simulator and then put you in it so we can test your assertions about how it works, and give you a score at the end
Also
We would never allow Russia or China to influence American voters with this kind of insane propaganda apparatus.
I’m not saying you are wrong about how it should work, but I also have bad news for you about where the GOP gets a lot of their money and priorities
And no that is not some hyperbole
I’m not saying you are wrong about how it should work, but I also have bad news for you about where the GOP gets a lot of their money and priorities
Tell me who is that? Surely the DNC doesn't accept money from those people right?
And Biden isn't president too right? He has no power to anything about AIPAC.
Instead of running simulations try observing this thing called "reality".
Tell me who is that?
One, two, three. It's pretty well documented at this point.
Surely the DNC doesn't accept money from those people right?
Er... what?
I know you're just throwing disagreements at me which is a game that can continue more or less forever; I'm pretty much done with the conversation at this point. But yes, the DNC doesn't accept money on any large scale from the Russians. What would be the point of the Russians funding the party that's running against the party that they have corrupted to serve their geopolitical ends?
A lot of things do work that way (AIPAC among them), but the Democrats are not trying to destroy America and advance Russia's interests abroad, and don't seem likely to start doing that anytime soon, so I would be surprised if there's any large-scale effort by the Russians to fund the DNC. Do you know of one?
Instead of running simulations try observing this thing called "reality".
Okay, sure. In reality Trump wants to finish the job in Gaza, is furious (along with his cohort in congress) at even the laughable level of resistance Biden has given to the genocide so far, and wants to have have the military seize voting machines and run the elections in the future, shoot protestors including ones for justice in Palestine with live ammunition, and fire anyone anywhere in the government who's not loyal to him (i.e. might give resistance to any of that as they did during his last term).
Will that lead to:
- Greater justice for Palestine, and better ability to fix this system in the future?
- Not that?
You don't have to answer; I do not plan to continue this interaction, I don't think. The game that can go on forever of you just saying crazy counterfactual shit with this condescending tone as if I'm the wrong one. I just wanted to debunk a little more of the crazy shit before I continue on with my day.
Yes we see Vladimir Putin bribing people under the table here.
Putin is not organizing "Russia PAC" conventions where both Democrats and Republicans are speaking proudly about how hard they are going to Genocide Palesitnians.
You don't have Russians posting this on Twitter
We are not inviting Vladimir Putin in Congress to speak about how he needs more 2000 pound bombs to blow up schools with.
You know why? Because that's illegal
I’m gonna just relax in the middle of the field, and observe the goalposts whizzing around. Look at them go! But I don’t have to run after them any more. I just had that epiphany.
I’m free.
(You also didn’t answer my 1 vs 2 question, because… as Hunter Thompson said, to ask the question is to answer the question. It is ok; I am done)
Your questions have all been answered. You just don't want to hear the answer because it destroys your world view.
Oww oof my world view
"Voting does something but israel simultaneously controls all of America so the Genocide can't be stopped"
lmao.
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Doesn't even have to be a phone call...
He just has to draw a line in the sand and say Israel gets no more weapons till they're on the right side of the line.
Obama did it. Biden said it was dumb, but it worked.
Now Biden isn't doing it, and Israel went on a full on genocide.
But Biden will never under any circumstances do it, so Israel knows as long as Biden is in office they can do whatever they want.
trump would want money/favors/praise, and if push comes to shove, he'll abandon them in an instant if he thought it would be better for trump or if Putin told him to.
Reagan did it with Begin with one phone call. Biden is just a Zionist and it is his genocide. Just like how he did in 1982 in Lebanon while Reagan called it a Holocaust.
Source on the Reagan phone call to Begin: https://www.nytimes.com/1982/08/13/world/reagan-demands-end-to-attacks-in-a-blunt-telephone-call-to-begin.html
Source on Biden saying to Begin he would go further: https://theintercept.com/2021/04/27/biden-israeli-invasion-lebanon/
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