It was sold in the gift shop, not on display. I know it’s not an enormous difference, but let’s try our best to keep the misinformation just on their side.
this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2024
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I'm prolly gonna get down arrowed for this but, this correction came off very pedantic to me.
I've noticed in speaking to conservatives, those I assume you meant by "their side", they don't care about fascism.
They don't care to read these 14 points, they don't care about politics, they don't care about accuracy. They care about the narrative.
It's sold in the Holocaust gift shop, while they buy red hats at the MAGA grift shop. The rhetoric is the only game they understand. They won't care if it was displayed.
I do think it’s important to be unassailable, because it’d be easy to say “the libs are making misleading claims” and then people not paying lots of attention will think there’s a “both sides” situation going on. I’m sure we all assumed it was literally on display as an exhibit; I was mislead. If you stick to transparent, honest language, the “both sides” stuff falls apart.
The MAGAs are unreachable, but the poorly-informed are out there too, and making them easier to confuse (by actually also spewing misleading-but-technically-true things) is not a good strategy.
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And Donnieboy: I tick all the boxes! Beautiful boxes! Nobody ticks all the boxes the way I do!
Human rights under biden are so great. He's pretty much blown all the potential human rights issues in Palestine.
You're right. By that single, solitary metric he's not much better than Trump. Luckily most folks realize that leaves a lot of other facets to consider.
Imagine seeing 100,000+ innocent lives as a single solitary metric. The amount of heartless brainwashed simping for a guy that can barely string together a coherent sentence is incredible.
simping for a guy that can barely string together a coherent sentence
Yeah, Trump's defenders do have a history of doing that.
Trump is an asshole, I have never and will never vote for him. It is mind-blowing how deep they have you people in this limited mindset. It is literally impossible for you to imagine the existence of someone who can acknowledge how awful and unfit biden is and yet not like Trump. They have truly turned your mind to putty to mold what they want with it. At least try to take back your brain from them, it's worth the effort.
It is literally impossible for you to imagine the existence of someone who can acknowledge how awful and unfit biden is and yet not like Trump.
Cool cool cool... So then I challenge you with this. Try to imagine the existence of people who understand what is bad about Biden, but also understand that any choice other than a vote for Biden is effectively a vote for Trump, and all the additional bad things that come with Trump. You don't have to agree with that position, but please don't pretend it doesn't exist.
It's going to blow your mind, but this is exactly the same mantra that gets belched out every single election. I know it all seems so unique and magical when you first get here, but to those of us who have been here awhile, it's the exact same thing every 4 years.
It’s going to blow your mind, but this is exactly the same mantra that gets belched out every single election. I know it all seems so unique and magical when you first get here, but to those of us who have been here awhile, it’s the exact same thing every 4 years.
Hey buddy, back off on the condescending old timer bullshit, I still get a hard time from people for my nader vote, which was still not my first (or second) rodeo.
For those of us who have been here awhile and been paying attention, it seems pretty clear how Trump and his followers represent something different than what has come before. We also remember how Reagan and W upset the applecart without even being as bad as Trump and his ilk.
Who do you think trump's term was so awful for? Is it just that he got abortion passed off to the States? Did he start a bunch of wars like his predecessors? Did he blow the hell out of poor middle-easterners? Nope, the blue team does that. The red team usually does as well, did trump? Nope. The problem people have with Trump isn't the things he did or does. It's what people are so sure he is going to do. I don't like him, he's a prick, i won't vote for him, but this idea that everything the blue team does gets excused and everything the red team does is pure evil is absurd. It doesn't lead to any constructive dialog. It is absolutely no different from the opposing view that red is baked in jesus' oven, and blue is straight from hell. The more people who do this ridiculous extremism on both sides, the worse we all are.
but this idea that everything the blue team does gets excused and everything the red team does is pure evil is absurd
That's not a position I've taken, and you've been exceptionally rude throughout this discussion. (not only with me) As to the rest - if you can't see what makes Trump worse, there's nothing anyone can say that will change your mind anyhow.
Good Day.
You'd be amazed you incredibly difficult it is to not hurt the feelings of people completely invested in a candidate. All I've said is that biden is a rubbish choice for president. Part way through our conversation, biden literally agreed with me! You're still simping him!
He fucked up the COVID response so bad that the cognitive dissonance in the country led directly to a undermining of just about every institution that would be responsible for handling it. His embracing of obvious lies in public because they played to his base while acknowledging the truth of those thing in private, creating a dichotomy of response that actually played anyone without their head up their ass directly against those that did, within groups inside his own administration!
His admin helped facilitate a vaccine he then directly undermined! Then he tries to take credit for that work constantly.
Like honestly I was almost with you until you said that last bit which is hand down one of the dumbest things in context I've ever seen.
Yeah, his non-existent leadership during that time lead to over a million dead Americans and the worst economic downturn since the great depression. Just imagine if he got out in front of the pandemic by sending out MAGA facemasks to every household in the country... Trusting scientific experts who said facemasks help prevent transmission instead of going on TV and saying he "doesn't think he's going to do it...". From this moment on, our pandemic response was fucked.
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does ANYONE outside of hexbear not ridicule you? this bIdEnBaD argument was weak and pointless the first time some tankie sharted it out of his face anus.
what do you think is going to happen to palestine if trump wins? because you can bet all your CCCP flags that it'll be exponentially worse than whatever's happening with biden
Yes, I totally get that you imagine that Trump will be worse. In reality, the only evidence we have is that biden is absolutely awful and has the blood of many thousands of children are on his hands. I get that you don't count them as humans because they speak a funny language and are too dark for you, but the whole world isn't a self-centered child stuck in their own little bubble.
nah. you can try to put words in my mouth, but that's a no go with me. how many protesters has biden deported, like trump promises to do? spoiler alert: zero. and that says nothing about what actions trump will actually take to reinforce israel's position
look, everyone knows what you're trying to do, but you're not getting anywhere. your solutions of either vote 3rd party, or don't vote, or vote for trump, are mind-bogglingly stupid and indefensible. everyone's absolute top priority for the next 3 months should be keeping trump out of the white house. your motive for trying to undermine that doesn't matter, but you really need to come up with better arguments
Imagine someone blows up everyone you've ever met in your entire life. Do they really seem like a saint if they don't deport teenagers who mention it in a land you'll never go to? Speaking of which, do you seriously think trump will have the military deport us citizens for protesting biden's slaughter of Palestinians? What kind of a mixed up reality have they blended your brain into accepting as "obvious" fact?
It is incredible how they trick people into caring about the absolute stupidest things instead of actual issues. It's like watching a 5yr olds birthday magician convince a bunch of kids that the dove is actually a literal scarf now.
you're trying to defend the notion that a Biden win is the worst possible outcome. there are no words to describe how moronic and wrong that is
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I dont think sexism fits, racism/race supremacy does. Emphasis on corporations also don't fit, wouldnt government taking control of them fit more?
Those two aren't mutually exclusive, but as long as the corpos kowtow to the government, they often let their leadership "stay in control" despite the government ultimately calling the shots still.
Sounds like it's the holocaust museum folks you need to argue with about that.
Sexism certainly does. Telling women that their place is in the kitchen and making/raising babies is sexist.
Not at all but its often a trope put out by right wingers. So, I can understand the confusion.
Fascism, at its heart, is corporatism fully realised. Fascism is also just capitalism when you try to say no. Of course, the nazis pretend that X company is nationalised but its profits are all given away to cronies, be it 1930s Germany and italy or 2020s Russia.
Left wing ideology is the community, as a whole, must own both the government and the means of production. Right wing ideology is the opposite of that where the private owns the government and the community as a whole, as if you were wages slaves or cattle.
Umberto Eco, who grew up in fascist Italy and has written extensively on the characteristics of fascism, disagrees with you about the sexism.
no, IDK why so many think the government controls corporations under fascism.
under fascism, historically, business owners largely just became part of the ruling class and helped dictate policy in their favor. (sounds familiar doesn't it)
it's less that the government took control of the business and more that the businesses were let into the government. not to be controlled, but to control and benefit. sure, you had to fall in line with the party, as all people did, but it was more of a power grab by the rich than a dictator controlling them. falling in line just meant going on stage to publicly declare support for the party and condemnation for their enemies. remember, fascism is all about showing off and being the big macho man. it's about looking the party more than feeling and being it.
if the government took over businesses under fascism German and Italian companies would be very very different today. as it stands, they either benefitted or got burned down.
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No, fascism has no religion and government intertwining and corporate power is not protected under fascism, because fascists want everything under government control, which includes corporations as well. Most of the points are correct, but I feel this is a bit biased and overall trying to project current issues through nazism; both are bad, but I think it's very important to make the distinction. Know your enemy.
Most fascist dictatorships have had large privatizations and all have favored corporations in economic policy. You act like business-state collaboration under fascism was unique to the nazis, but it was also central to fascist Italy, Francoist Spain, and right-wing dictatorships like those of Pinochet or the military in Brazil.
Fascism happens when capitalism is in crisis because it’s better for the corporations than socialism would be. Both Italy and Germany had strong socialist movements in the years before fascists came to power, and fascists are consistently funded by a business community that fears losing everything it has. The fascist emphasis on the state, nationalism, and war, is only because it’s required to suppress organized labor.
i believe you're thinking of authoritarian communism, like north Korea or the ussr.
all examples of historic fascism had very strong corporations that were heavily subsidized by the government. like Nazi Germany and fascist Italy.
now, we've never really seen a true fascists state outside of wartime, but that might be kind of the point of fascism. they must always be in wartime.
It's joever
You mistook Fascism for Nazism. Especially flag is a Nazi symbol
And you know what that bundle of sticks is called in Latin? Fascis. That's where the name comes from.
Also, nationalsocialism is just one of plenty forms of fascism. It's an umbrella term. And arguing that a poster warns of the wrong sect of genocidal nationalist dictatorship, is just absolutely beyond any kind brain rot.
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You might find this seminal essay on Fascism interesting.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism
You’ll have to notice that the image in the post replaces “traditionalism” with “nationalism”.
This was the essay I was going to post. It's very good.
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