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this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2024
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Fuck Cars
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The answer is jobs, and privacy.
The more roads, the more opportunities your citizens have access to. Also, those same people don't want to live in Apartments that they'll never be allowed to own, packed like sardines in a population dense building.
So, roads allow them to have their own houses out in the suburbs - and the more of them, the faster they can get to their destination. The faster they can get to their destination, the further out they can move. This also supplies businesses with a wider reach of the population for whatever their needs are.
And people don't want to waste an extra 45 minutes getting to their destination by waiting on public transportation. We're a population of people who - when we want something done - we do it now. Delays are unacceptable.
This is the quintessential ignorance to everything outside of a car-centric realm that is pervasive in North America.
The more roads, the more opportunities your citizens have access to.
This is only true when you have super restrictive zoning laws. The other way is to bring the opportunities closer to the citizens i.e. have more freedom to put corner stores, shops, hospitals in neighbourhoods, instead of having only big box stores in the outskirts with acres and acres of subsidized parking.
Another problem is there are very little variety of modern condos, apartments that are big enough to raise families, so many barely fit in 1 bedroom.
Moving suburbs further out ends up adding more time on everyone's trip, it does not make it faster at all. Unlike typical NA bus systems, a good transit system wouldn't add that much time and unlike highways and easily ramp up capacity during peak times so that it doesn't take 2-6 times as long due to traffic.
The more roads, the more opportunities your citizens have access to.
I don't think this is true.
Also, those same people don’t want to live in Apartments that they’ll never be allowed to own,
You can own an apartment
packed like sardines in a population dense building.
Density has a number of benefits. More cultural output, less isolation, it doesn't feel like a post apocalypse scene when you go outside.
So, roads allow them to have their own houses out in the suburbs - and the more of them, the faster they can get to their destination.
This is satire, right? Poe's law is real.
This also supplies businesses with a wider reach of the population for whatever their needs are.
Foot traffic is good for businesses and neighborhoods. Car traffic much less so
And people don’t want to waste an extra 45 minutes getting to their destination by waiting on public transportation.
Public transit is often faster. Plus I can do many more things on the train than I can while driving (reading, games, some kinds of work, etc)
Delays are unacceptable.
Car based transit introduces many delays.
Your post is a joke right? I can't tell.
I was gonna respond to them but honestly, I couldn't even begin to think of where. That comment was so wrong on so many levels.
Just the simple fact that someone would unironically say that you can't own a condo is just wild to me, let alone the rest.
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Poorly educated boomer likely... they just shill shit teevee told them 20 years ago because muhh property values.
Privacy - on a vehicle with publicly visible license plates that’s being tracked by various license plate readers not to mention the various sensor outputs being uploaded over a cellular connection to be sold
lmao
I think people that don't spend much time in dense spaces have a limited idea of privacy.
There's privacy in the sense of being unseen, and there's privacy in the sense of being unremarkable.
I can walk down the street here and people will see me with their eyes but not their brain.
In the suburbs where my parents live, if I walk down the street people will see and notice. It's unusual to walk, so people take note of it. I've had the police stop and question me because I was walking (and I'm a white guy)
Being completely unseen isn't as valuable as being unremarkable to me. I can ride the train with a bunch of other people and they'll see me, but they won't care
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They are talking about the privacy that having your own home detached from neighbors' homes affords. It's wonderful.
Lolwat
Us construction quality is shite... Even Macmansions you hear everything everybody doing with the property.
The wood structure just passes noise through the entire house🤡
Also your neighbors care about who you are in because they can since there is so few people lol
While your every move online is tracked.
How is this different from a row house?
I will admit that living in wood frame construction apartments is degrading though.
But the issue is quality and type of costruction, not the type of housing but suburban trash would never understand these things.
Hey, but let's talk about crime now
What the fuck, such a ridiculous bunch of bullshit. You must have no concept of the massive variety and depth of the massive landscape that makes up the USA.
My house is brick, built about 5 decades ago, I own it along with multiple acres of forested land. I get along with my neighbors fine, and we help each other out occasionally, and we have enough distance and room from each other that I can piss in my yard any hour of any day that I want with privacy. The crime rate here is so low that we have about 1 murder per decade on average. I pretty much do whatever I want all the time here in the USA and I wouldn't trade it to live anywhere else (unless someone paid me millions of dollars to)
Good for you... But your taxes paid on property and gasoline don't support the infrastructure you are using even more then
Fuxking parasites got to comfortable they don't know they leeching 🤡
Also many houses are "brick" is woodgrame with brick decor that is lol
For reference, here’s a Not Just Bikes video about how suburban property taxes do not cover the costs of infrastructure, with numbers: https://youtu.be/7Nw6qyyrTeI?si=mVDdJNfGXV0g-W65
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So everyone should have acres of land? And drive literally tens or hundreds of miles to buy a gallon of milk? How does that scale?
tens or hundreds of miles to buy a gallon of milk?
Do you seriously think that people are driving HUNDREDS of miles to get necessities?
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Most folks online seem to only know cheap HOA Florida style neighborhoods with zero places to walk, cheap construction and 10 ft between houses.
Everyone makes assumptions of what "dense apartment living" , "suburban living" etc looks like, and folks are generally wrong on both sides of the perspective.
At its best, suburban living is great. I'm biased because I have an awesome suburb home I bought for cheap many years ago, and have awesome neighbors and no need for an HOA. I can access public transportation easily and use it often. Many other great things, including privacy and quiet. I can access the city center in about 20 minutes or great outdoor spaces in say 30. By bike. That's not normal for lots of folks
But again, I'm biased. My experience is not universal.
suburb you described is pretty much the exception and these are expansive generally as any city.
South or West US style burbs is just the same corporate ghetto except this one does not produce sufficient tax base to support its existence without "growth"
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At its best, suburban living is great.
I don't know about great.
If it's not walkable, it's not good. I want to cover my basics without a car or long trip. Where I am now there's maybe 5 groceries of various sizes and a couple dozen restaurants and bars within a short walk. Plus other stuff like hardware stores, pharmacies, etc.
This isn't a fancy or expensive neighborhood. It's just regular Brooklyn. I wouldn't trade this for the suburbs.
Even if you had a "suburb" that was walkable, you're just not going to have as much stuff. Like if you lived right by "main Street" where my parents lived, there's just fewer options. Like, I don't think they had a single Thai restaurant when I was growing up.
If you accept the premise that a wider variety of options is better, suburbs really can't compete on that metric. Someone might prefer the "there's one diner in this town" model but that sounds dull to me.
But mostly it's the car-first nature of most suburbs I can't stand. It's antisocial, it's dangerous, it pollutes the environment. My parents take a 10 minute drive to get groceries and that's incredibly wasteful.
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I haven't heard anything my neoghbours do other than occasional drilling and I live in an apartment building with ~40 parties.
Just don't build shitty houses
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Whoosh.
Privacy as in I get to run around the property naked, and do whatever I want, as loud as I want, without worrying about a shared wall. Personal privacy.
Every - single - apartment dweller that I have ever met, has complained about the guy upstairs stomping around, or the loud kids running around outside their door, or listening to the neighbor fuck their housekeeper at 2am. They get deliveries stolen from their front door so consistently that they need a PO box to have things delivered to. They've got crack heads and pot smokers that stink up the place and leave used needles around the area.
So yeah...Privacy. Privacy AND Peace.
Not sure why you are being downvoted into oblivion. What you are saying is very true, but where we disagree is that roads are the only solution. Last night, I was looking at a short trip l need to make this weekend (here in the US): 14 min by car, 58 min by rail (with a 20 min walk to get to the station), 1h20 by bus. We brought that on ourselves, we've made it so that cars are the only viable option - but better public transit for example would make things a lot better, for a lot of people.
That's pretty normal for this sub, to be honest. I'm fine with it, because at least the mods aren't deleting comments they don't like; they let people downvote instead. All in all while I would say I disagree with this community in many ways, I respect its followers and its mods to a higher degree than I do other communities. It allows discourse whereas others often don't. I actually applaud the restraint of the mods here, because it's easy to just delete opinions you don't agree with when that button is available.
The actual followers of the community -- Herd animals are gonna herd animal. Lots of people just want to be told that their opinions are correct; not everyone actually wants to debate the merits of their viewpoints.
We're a population of people who - when we want something done - we do it now. Delays are unacceptable.
Believe it or not, this is actually a product of cars.
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Detached homes are fine but people buying them need to actually pay their worth to society which they do not right now. It's a lifestyle that is subsidized by the dense cities as the sprawling infrastructure is not economically self sustainable. And it's ridiculous that in many places in North America the only thing that's legal to build is single family homes. It's a falsehood saying that's what most people want, when the reality is that's the only option on most of the land. We cannot continue to economically or environmentally support that as the majority form of housing, we need more missing middle density like townhomes, four -plexs etc. Not to mention the cars whether gas or electric will become unaffordable to the average person in the next 20 years
Detached homes are fine but people buying them need to actually pay their worth to society which they do not right now. It’s a lifestyle that is subsidized by the dense cities as the sprawling infrastructure is not economically self sustainable.
What, in your opinion, are costs that detached homes are being subsidized by others not living in detached homes?
And it’s ridiculous that in many places in North America the only thing that’s legal to build is single family homes.
Its not entirely ridiculous. There are finite limits to local civil infrastructure. Think things like:
- public school student capacity
- fresh water supply
- sewage treatment
- road size in the localities
- capacities of public transportation
Unchecked high density housing in a small area can overwhelm these critical services things in short order. Some landlocked communities may not even have the real estate to build out additional facilities irrespective if the tax revenue exists.
It’s a falsehood saying that’s what most people want, when the reality is that’s the only option on most of the land.
You're making a statement as though it is fact. Can you cite your source of that fact?
How does New York cope with its density and schools/services? It’s a mystery that cannot be solved, no way to know.
Also in Europe people don’t have schools or sewage, we’re feral educated and dump our poop in the river.
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🤦♀️
And people don't want to waste an extra 45 minutes getting to their destination by waiting on public transportation. We're a population of people who - when we want something done - we do it now. Delays are unacceptable
Cities built around public transit (like Seoul, Tokyo, Zurich, Vienna) don't have that problem. Cars are what create unexpected delays. Cars are what ruin cities for everyone.
Exactly! Perfect example of the lie they're talking about.
Is this an eanrest take?
Or is u booming, boy?
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