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After a day and several replies from people. I've come to the conclusion that people here are ok with their party and leaders supporting genocide and they attack the questioners (instead of their party leaders) who criticize those who support genocide. Critical thinking is scarce here.
I'm shameful of humanity.
I too have a nuanced opinion about my voting options and a strong contempt for candidates who talk down to people who are right.
I'm still voting Harris because the only other option wants to see people like me hanged.
Wouldn't it be much better if no-one gets hanged or genocided? Wouldn't it be much better if democrats listen to young voters and stop supporting/funding genocide?
Wouldn't it be much better if no-one gets hanged or genocided?
Have you got a way to make that happen?
Have you got a way to make that happen?
"If we all clap our hands and believe really hard, the majority of the electorate will come around to our thinking inside of the next month!"
I don't know why we weren't doing that BEFORE a few weeks before election day. Apparently it's only viable when there's a serious risk of fascism. I'm sure these people aren't just trying to get their favorite fascist in office.
And how do you propose for that to realistically happen? Because Trump wants to see entire groups of people dead in this country, deport Muslims, and also turn the entire Middle East into a sheet of glass using nukes.
No fucking shit lol, but this isn't fantasy, now is not the time to be acting like the threat of not voting will change any policies, because we're still competing with half the country who wants an extra-genocidal maniac in
Y'all are seriously downvoting the "maybe we shouldn't spend over $22bn a year on weapons used to genocide" post? That really highlights OP's point.
Finally a sane soul in comments.
Let the guy who wants to do even more genocide into office! That'll show the genociders!
People really out here wondering how the dems could have such right wing policies while also never showing up during primaries or generals to indicate that moving left will pay anything back.
Fosters electoral climate where the people who at minimum are sympathetic to the genociders are the majority of likely voters.
"Why won't the dems go against the genociders‽ How dare a major political party adopt policy positions that upset a contingent of voters who have consistently demonstrated they can't be trusted to show up even when you do take the positions they want as evidenced by how they completely abandoned Bernie during the primaries BOTH GODDAMNED TIMES!!!!"
Now to speak as a Palestinian American, your supposed stand for your principals is actively putting my people in even more danger, so quit acting like you're their ally while you basically use them as a hostage to demand leaders stop letting them be held hostage.
If you think the answer to Dems being soft on Bibi is to let power back into the hands of the guy who handed him West Bank, East Jerusalem, and The Golan Heights on a silver platter, you're either a covert zionist, or an unwitting agent of them, either way, you need to sit down and shut the fuck up before you get the people you're talking over into even more danger.
Nu-uh! I said I'm anti Genocide so I can't do no wrong with my vote! /s
Sometimes I wish I could vote in the US Elections too. They are much more dramatic then ours.
Trust me, drama is worth a lot more when seen than it is when experienced.
I'll ask the same question i did on the other thread. Why, do disaffected voters have to ...
[show] up during primaries or generals to indicate that moving left will pay anything back.
Why not just poll them, or focus-group them, or use proxies like social media?
You seem to have no problem with the notion of leftist groups communicating preferred policies to Democrat strategists, but then seem to bizarrely assume that the only way to communicate a willingness to vote is to actually vote (for a party you don't agree with).
Tell me... We all go out and vote Democrat. They get into power. How do they now know it wasn't the support for genocide that won them the vote and go even further next time?
A take I've heard that maybe you'll understand is this:
Leftist organizing in the US isn't going to change the system 90 days before election day. There's simply too much momentum with the two party system we have.
So now the situation is, vote for whoever you'd rather have in charge of the country while you do your leftist organizing for the next several years. I know I'd rather do that work under a Harris presidency than a Trump one, for a million obvious reasons.
To do anything else is to simply not understand the reality of the situation.
That's a reasonable argument, but it leads to some pretty uncomfortable conclusions for democracy.
During our next "leftist organizing for the next several years.", why would the Democrats budge an inch given that they know all they need to do is hold fast until the last 90 days and we'll all fall into line and vote for them anyway?
We end up like the boy who cries wolf. All our protest and campaigns mean nothing because our votes are, in the end, absolutely guaranteed. The Democrats can have whatever policy positions they like.
I don't see how 4 years or 4 days makes any difference. If they are guaranteed your vote come election day, they have no reason to shift policy in order to obtain it.
I'd say then you don't understand the purpose of on-the-ground political organizing or what it looks like. It's not about changing the whole system in one go, it's about radicalizing as many people as possible for a grassroots movement. You use that to get local politicians in power favorable to leftist causes. Then you apply pressure upward.
We're currently more radicalized as a country than we've been since the Red Scare. Just because the progress is frustratingly slow does not mean it isn't happening.
At the risk of feeding a sea lion, there’s actually a simple reason a candidate might shift their position toward voters that are already “guaranteed” to vote for them: if that “guaranteed” base grows, it provides a voting offset that could allow the candidate to worry less about losing the support of less progressive voters.
It's extremely interesting that democratic politicians have not only managed people (traditional voters) into believing that this genocide is normal but if you demand or say anything against this genocide then these normal people will attack you instead of asking their party leader "Why is it essential for their party to keep supporting genocide?"
Just completely ignored the spelled put reason for all of this on your way to this comment huh?
Not voting does nothing but say that your opinions are not worth listening to.
That is the entirety of what that action says.
There is no other message that gets recieved.
Because under FPTP, there is no other message the Dems can afford to receive.
The math literally works out that you are either supporting them or that you are not, and that the best spent energy is on consistent voters who are able to be convinced, not on morons who think that saying maybe they'll vote this time if all of their demands are met by election day with a divided house and senate, swearzies.
To party planners this stunt you're pulling looks like nothing but Lucy with the football saying you swear you aren't gonna pull it away this time if they took a run at it like that really old guy did in '16 and '20 before being completely abandoned at the polls.
Dependability and consistency is what gets names on primary ballots that can make change.
You have to show up and do the bare minimum work, consistently, or you are mathematically not worth the trouble of trying to please.
The time to make this stand was in the primary season, and y'all told the democrats that being even low-key anti-genocode is nothing but running at Lucy's football yet again, after the most vocal members of the progressive flank about it all got knocked out in that stage of the election.
You had your chance to send the message and you fucking wasted it on the "none of the above" bullshit.
You literally saw the knife coming down on the people who were listening to you and instead of showing up for them you stood there and then scratched your head over why nobody's around who's listening to you anymore.
Fuck you.
You created the current crop of Dems that have to be convinced even harder now that pursuing a cease-fire is worth anything electorally, and the only reason that'll even be possible is a once in a century replacement of the candidate for head of the party.
I think the trick has been to give people a plausible narrative that makes them sound like the clever ones, standard power-play. People love that stuff, myself included, we're all vulnerable to it. It's why conspiracy theories work so well, but here, the same psychology is put to use rewarding people for saying stuff that's obviously morally bankrupt. I think it works the same way a peacock's tail works in evolution, the idea being that 'surely no one would say something so obviously awful unless they had a really very complicated and convincing reason'
It's allowed some of the decade's worst atrocities to go virtually unopposed.
Is it too much to ask for a meme template that doesn't DIRECTLY contradict your message?
Or did you mean to imply that single-issue anti-gaza-slaughter voters are the equivalent of star wars criticts being properly annoyed by folk who like melodramatic space opera?
So no actual on topic criticisms?
Fair enough as long as you know why the cop is going to lose the election.
It's weird world out here, where you are told what to and what not to demand from your representatives and demanding end to genocide is deemed controversial.
regardless of the genocide(that has been going on for the last 20 election cycles), if you are undecided about the right choice in the 2024 US election, you're ignorant, selfish or spoiled.
If you are democrat leader then you've the chance to win the votes of young, undecided voters by not funding or supporting genocide. You should know that if they vote for third parties in large numbers, then you are in great trouble. Those votes are valuable. Accept our demands and take the vote.
the democrats are already winning the votes of young and decided voters.
they're the party of personal Liberty, sustainable technology, international cooperation, climate change, minority representation, they're doing fine on popular progressive issues.
what are you saying is based on a false premise.
also, third party voting is fine. it is what voting actually is supposed to be, as it is in most countries.
you vote for the candidate that most aligns with your values.
If the democrats will ignore our demands and continue their support and funding of genocidal regime then they will lose this election.
the democrats are doing great, especially after the resounding success at the debate.
there is plenty of counter evidence against your whining.
The democrats have a huge following, also, importantly, this is an election.
they could lose anyway. That's what an election is.
If you want to vote for a third party, go for it, that is how voting works.
given that Harris has already pushed forward momentum on basically every major progressive policy for the past 4 years, you'd be an idiot not to vote for harris and walz if you care about people at all.
"If the democrats will ignore our demands..."
you draw lazy memes and have no valid arguments. it doesn't sound like you really care about anything.
nobody cares about your pretension.
So in either not voting or voting for the other guy you achieve:
even more and FASTER genocide
genocide in ukraine
genocide at home for everyone in lgbtq
Good job! You solved genocide by not voting Kamala!
too spicy for .world
distantsounds, Not supporting genocide is a controversial take here.
It's not a controversial take you dipshit, the controversy is you thinking Trump is going to be better, because at the end of the day that's all it is. And you not responding to anyone giving you actual reasons and instead whining about everyone here being "pro-genocide" or whatever. You're pathetic, or a teenager who has no idea that America is barely a democracy.